LucasForums

LucasForums (http://www.lucasforums.com/index.php)
-   Kavar's Corner (http://www.lucasforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=698)
-   -   Violent games worse than Porn? (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=202347)

Astor 01-12-2010 06:14 PM

Violent games worse than Porn?
 
Ron Jeremy's controversial claim.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Jeremy
"Studies have found that violent video games are a much bigger negative influence on kids,"

Because of course, Mr. Jeremy has the moral high ground in this instance. :lol:

Although, the article does make some good points in the way of making sure children are protected from harmful material such as pornography.

urluckyday 01-13-2010 01:30 AM

http://www.dembot.net/images/facepal...k_facepalm.jpg

Totenkopf 01-13-2010 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astor (Post 2700367)
Ron Jeremy's controversial claim.



Because of course, Mr. Jeremy has the moral high ground in this instance. :lol:

Although, the article does make some good points in the way of making sure children are protected from harmful material such as pornography.

Course I'm sure he knows the best way to protect kids from porn is NOT to make it in the first place. :rolleyes: Actually, reminds me of the Carlin routine where he talks about substituting the "f" word for "kill" (eg "Alright, sherrif, we're gonna "f" you, but we're gonna "f" ya slow"). Jeremy seems a bit self-righteously defensive about the whole thing.

Darth Avlectus 01-13-2010 02:02 AM

Yes, this has just so much traction. Especially when he has defiled Mario Bros. about as badly IRL as hentai defiles decent anime in the industry.

http://plumberplace.files.wordpress....1/image_70.jpg

Don't tell me, let me guess...We're going to hear next that insecticides and genetic modification of food decreases the likelihood of cancer where hunting is evil...said by Dick Cheney turning the NES Duck Hunt title into Meadow Massacre? :lol:

Wait, I know! How about we now have Hayden Christensen play Rock for an MIT made movie like Rockman: Dr Wily's invasion!!!


Gimmie a break. :rofl:

Darth333 01-13-2010 06:44 PM

I won't get into what's worse as porn seems to be defined in very different ways depending on where you live: http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...or_taking.html :eyeroll:

However, between guns and/or nipples/penis, I'd chose nipples/penis any day :p 9depending on the presentation, of course)

I remember visiting tribes in the Amazonia region when I was 8 where people were nude and I have not been traumatized whatsoever (nor do I know any one else who has been). However, seeing people killed with machetes or machine guns at that same age has had a whole other effect.

I never quite understood that sex or even a depiction of nipples (like the Oblivion "scandal" where a mere depiction of nipples in a file accessible only to modders caused a rating modification) = bad while the killing wasn't even questioned.

Nedak 01-13-2010 06:59 PM

Depends on what you consider porn to be.

He is right...

Human love making...

vs/ human killings.



However, I think both should be reserved for kids who are older.

thegame197676 01-13-2010 07:35 PM

So Ron Jeremy is now a trying to be a role model for todays youth?

Kinda like Jenna Jamenson speaking at an abstinance group.

::

machievelli 01-13-2010 08:02 PM

The problem as I see it is people like Mr Jeremy telling us that an industry, not the parent in charge should 'clean up their act' so the parent doesn't have to. Admitedly a first person shooter doesn't teach you a lot beyond how to get a good sight picture, just as Jeremy's work in the words of Gene Wilder, tells you what goes where and why. If I had been around my daughter when she was 13, I would have had that bird's and bees talk because I cannot explain logically why she should have been careful without being willing to discuss the subject, which the average parent we hear whining isn't.

Darth Avlectus 01-13-2010 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegame197676 (Post 2700631)
So Ron Jeremy is now a trying to be a role model for todays youth?

Kinda like Jenna Jamenson speaking at an abstinance group.

:iceburn:

Not bad for a newb. I'll hand ya that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by machievelli (Post 2700637)
The problem as I see it is people like Mr Jeremy telling us that an industry, not the parent in charge should 'clean up their act' so the parent doesn't have to. Admitedly a first person shooter doesn't teach you a lot beyond how to get a good sight picture, just as Jeremy's work in the words of Gene Wilder, tells you what goes where and why. If I had been around my daughter when she was 13, I would have had that bird's and bees talk because I cannot explain logically why she should have been careful without being willing to discuss the subject, which the average parent we hear whining isn't.

This.

Also parents need to not shy away from talking to their kids about several things which (like it or not) include gun safety, self defense, bad people, drugs, addiction, etc. But no. I've met parents/guardians who refuse to even get their kid a tool set because "it might make them violent" or whatever. If you worry little Johnny is going to bop someone over the head with a wrench, it's time to have that talk about controlling one's own temper.

>_>

Bimmerman 01-13-2010 09:59 PM

Wait, porn's bad? http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/images/smilies/rofl3.gif

Darth Avlectus 01-14-2010 12:10 AM

Hey, I got a question for Ron Jeremy:
When there is notable violence in porn, like explicit depictions of forcible rape, trauma, and usage of violence in it, then what?

Besides, Mario Bros. is basically a metaphor of one big 'shrooms'n'acid trip on top of itself essentially being violent (also cartoons are violent BTW).

So simulations where you are committing violence and murder in one form or another is destructive, but it's as though encouraging in sexual acts explicitly depicted don't have potentially far reaching and serious long term consequences?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Samnmax221 01-14-2010 12:22 AM

Maybe we should do what the scary man says.

spoiler:
My early experiences with porn were going just fine until I saw a picture of Ron Jeremy doing "things" to some lady, then I was traumatized.

purifier 01-14-2010 12:42 AM

Yeah, and maybe he could have some supporting mottos that say something like:


"MAKE PORN, NOT WAR!"


or


"HEY EVERYBODY, DON'T COMMIT VIOLENCE AGAINST ONE ANOTHER, JUST (your word here) THE HELL OUT EACH OTHER INSTEAD!"


:dozey:

Sabretooth 01-14-2010 01:32 AM

Porn and violent video games are both equally awesome. End of discussion.

Jae Onasi 01-14-2010 01:32 AM

I have no problem with nudity, but that's very different from porn.

Asking if violence is worse than porn is like asking if vomit is worse than diarrhea. Regardless of how you feel about it for adults, neither is good for children.

urluckyday 01-14-2010 01:37 AM

It all comes down to the parents...each family needs to determine their own family values and decide what the children can/can't watch or play. The parental controls are in place for the TV and Video Game systems, so there should be no reason to expose children to either sex or violence if you don't want them to be.

Qui-Gon Glenn 01-14-2010 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urluckyday (Post 2700739)
It all comes down to the parents...each family needs to determine their own family values and decide what the children can/can't watch or play. The parental controls are in place for the TV and Video Game systems, so there should be no reason to expose children to either sex or violence if you don't want them to be.

That requires of parents that they actually be interested in and are accountable for the job they hold as parents. Tall order these days....

urluckyday 01-14-2010 02:06 AM

^Well plain and simple, there's nothing you can do about it other than say they shouldn't be parents then. If you don't take interest in your child's welfare, you're not fit to parent. I don't know how to solve the problem if that's the case.

Qui-Gon Glenn 01-14-2010 02:24 AM

Agreed. 100%. Those that should breed aren't interested, those that shouldn't multiply seemingly by masturbation, and thus idiocracy inherits the earth.

Pavlos 01-14-2010 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth333 (Post 2700619)
I won't get into what's worse as porn seems to be defined in very different ways depending on where you live: http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...or_taking.html :eyeroll:

That is quite simply, disgusting. Have you seen the Creation of Adam in the Sistine Chapel? The immodesty of it!

Q 01-14-2010 06:35 AM

Aw, lay off the Hedgehog.

He's a hero to ugly, hairy, overweight and out of shape guys everywhere. :D
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jae Onasi (Post 2700738)
Asking if violence is worse than porn is like asking if vomit is worse than diarrhea. Regardless of how you feel about it for adults, neither is good for children.

Just thought I'd add that this analogy is excellent.

Jae Onasi 01-14-2010 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qui_gon_glenn (Post 2700744)
That requires of parents that they actually be interested in and are accountable for the job they hold as parents. Tall order these days....

I, and many parents on this forum, would disagree with you. Yes, there are a lot of absentee parents, I'll agree on that. I think that has a lot to do with both parents working to make ends meet, or single-parent families where the mom or dad are working 2 jobs to support their kids. Some of it is sheer laziness. Some of it I think is new parents don't have enough training on parenting and need to learn. Some of it is lack of knowledge on how violence and porn affect youngsters, because we as adults are rather desensitized to both violence and sexual content. Many don't understand that these things affect children very differently from adults. Some of it is lack of knowledge on how to use the parental controls. How many people have trouble just programming the clock on the DVR?

However, I spend a lot of time evaluating shows and games before my kids play them, and I think a lot of parents on this forum do so as well. Many other parents outside of this forum are very concerned about that and exercise judgment about what is appropriate for their kids. We hear about the parents who don't care a lot more than we hear about the parents who do care.

urluckyday 01-14-2010 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jae Onasi (Post 2700819)
I, and many parents on this forum, would disagree with you. Yes, there are a lot of absentee parents, I'll agree on that. I think that has a lot to do with both parents working to make ends meet, or single-parent families where the mom or dad are working 2 jobs to support their kids. Some of it is sheer laziness. Some of it I think is new parents don't have enough training on parenting and need to learn. Some of it is lack of knowledge on how violence and porn affect youngsters, because we as adults are rather desensitized to both violence and sexual content. Many don't understand that these things affect children very differently from adults. Some of it is lack of knowledge on how to use the parental controls. How many people have trouble just programming the clock on the DVR?

However, I spend a lot of time evaluating shows and games before my kids play them, and I think a lot of parents on this forum do so as well. Many other parents outside of this forum are very concerned about that and exercise judgment about what is appropriate for their kids. We hear about the parents who don't care a lot more than we hear about the parents who do care.

I'm not a parent, and I'm not going to claim to know all about parenting b/c idk how my parents ever did it.

But I don't understand how it is healthy to have a child in any case be left out of the parent's interest. I don't think adults should decide to have kids unless they know what they are going to teach them and instill in their morals. Parents are the people that guide how their children think and eventually what kind of person they'll turn into. If something is obviously sexually or graphically explicit, it doesn't take a lot to figure out that maybe it's not the best thing for a child to watch and that's just based on social morals and culture usually.

There's nothing we can do about bad parenting b/c really there's nobody to watch over the parents (and I don't think there should be). All I can say for sure is that if parents haven't figured out what their own morals are and what is okay for their family to watch/play, they should not be parents and should wait until they figure themselves out before they can even figure out how they're going to raise a family.

thegame197676 01-14-2010 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urluckyday (Post 2700832)

There's nothing we can do about bad parenting b/c really there's nobody to watch over the parents (and I don't think there should be). All I can say for sure is that if parents haven't figured out what their own morals are and what is okay for their family to watch/play, they should not be parents and should wait until they figure themselves out before they can even figure out how they're going to raise a family.

I couldn't agree more, that what a kid is exposed to is ultimately the parent's responsibility bar none. Blaming video games, TV, movies, music on and on is little more then an excuse for bad parents to remove responsibility from themselves.

machievelli 01-14-2010 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity (Post 2700718)
Hey, I got a question for Ron Jeremy:
When there is notable violence in porn, like explicit depictions of forcible rape, trauma, and usage of violence in it, then what?

Besides, Mario Bros. is basically a metaphor of one big 'shrooms'n'acid trip on top of itself essentially being violent (also cartoons are violent BTW).

So simulations where you are committing violence and murder in one form or another is destructive, but it's as though encouraging in sexual acts explicitly depicted don't have potentially far reaching and serious long term consequences?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

First the one legal definition of pornography that makes sense is where the violence in question is not consenual, which leaves out typical B&D or S&M but does include rape. A number of women I have met have their own 'rape fantasies' and as long as you are willing to limit yourselves to their rules (The Crux of both B&D and S&M) do as you will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jae Onasi (Post 2700819)
I, and many parents on this forum, would disagree with you. Yes, there are a lot of absentee parents, I'll agree on that. I think that has a lot to do with both parents working to make ends meet, or single-parent families where the mom or dad are working 2 jobs to support their kids. Some of it is sheer laziness. Some of it I think is new parents don't have enough training on parenting and need to learn. Some of it is lack of knowledge on how violence and porn affect youngsters, because we as adults are rather desensitized to both violence and sexual content. Many don't understand that these things affect children very differently from adults. Some of it is lack of knowledge on how to use the parental controls. How many people have trouble just programming the clock on the DVR?

However, I spend a lot of time evaluating shows and games before my kids play them, and I think a lot of parents on this forum do so as well. Many other parents outside of this forum are very concerned about that and exercise judgment about what is appropriate for their kids. We hear about the parents who don't care a lot more than we hear about the parents who do care.

I don't think he's aiming at the parents mentioned, as in working parents. I am more upset with the parents who scream about 'sex education' citing the bible usually as a source that what they want their kids to know about it is what they decide to teach them, which is usually nothing.

As for training Robert Lynn Asprin said it best. Regardless of what manner of citizen you are in a society it is always accepted that you can raise a child correctly.

You need a license to drive a car, to practice medicine, to pilot an aircraft, and to operate some heavy machinery, but nothing but simple biological capability to have a child.

Qui-Gon Glenn 01-14-2010 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jae Onasi (Post 2700819)
I, and many parents on this forum, would disagree with you.

Of course most parents would disagree, whether the assessment was accurate or no.

The old adage is still as true as ever - One bad egg spoils the whole bunch, at least in terms of reputation for modern parents. I feel that in this case there are far more bad eggs in the dozen, yet still I feel just as strongly that over half of parents are doing the best they can for themselves and their children.

I meant no disrespect to any parents in this forum - I assume, and this may be too generous, but the majority of parents hanging out around here are more intelligent than average, better educated than average, and more interested in their kid's lives than average - if for no better reason than they share with their children the love of Star Wars :)

As for porn v. violent games in the ultimate bad-off for kiddies - if I have to choose, serve the children porn. Of course, I have a sorta Brave New World attitude towards sexuality.... warped, I know.

Miltiades 01-14-2010 02:53 PM

Sex > violence.

Ping 01-14-2010 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jae Onasi (Post 2700738)
I have no problem with nudity, but that's very different from porn.

Asking if violence is worse than porn is like asking if vomit is worse than diarrhea. Regardless of how you feel about it for adults, neither is good for children.

I agree with you here.

Totenkopf 01-14-2010 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miltiades (Post 2700874)
Sex > violence.

Only if you're personally involved. :naughty: Otherwise.....I'd rather watch a movie or play a game w/a lot of violence than sex.

Darth333 01-14-2010 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pavlos (Post 2700770)
That is quite simply, disgusting. Have you seen the Creation of Adam in the Sistine Chapel? The immodesty of it!

My thoughts, exactly...especially since the restoration and the removal of the "vine leaves" lol... Human stupidity FTW! ...We are a damned race IMHO and it's definitely not because of the Sistine Chapel ceilings & the like :p - d3

I think that the first thing is to define what porn means as the concept seems to vary quite a lot...at least for some people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
I, and many parents on this forum, would disagree with you. Yes, there are a lot of absentee parents, I'll agree on that. I think that has a lot to do with both parents working to make ends meet, or single-parent families where the mom or dad are working 2 jobs to support their kids. Some of it is sheer laziness. Some of it I think is new parents don't have enough training on parenting and need to learn. Some of it is lack of knowledge on how violence and porn affect youngsters, because we as adults are rather desensitized to both violence and sexual content. Many don't understand that these things affect children very differently from adults. Some of it is lack of knowledge on how to use the parental controls. How many people have trouble just programming the clock on the DVR?

Still the notion of what's acceptable and what is not varies a lot from a culture to another. I was reviewing movie ratings a few months ago just for fun and while we are just across the border (Quebec, Canada - movie rating is of Provincial jurisdiction and not national), several movies rated R or NC17 in the US due to their sexual content were rated 13+ (teenagers) or even G here and in several cases it was vice versa for violence...

adamqd 01-15-2010 07:00 AM

Sex is beautiful and natural, violence is not... but, Porn is ACTUAL sex, Video games and Films aren't Real Violence and Crime, so Porn is worse for an underage viewer IMO. But it's kinda like asking do you want to be Punched or Kicked? You don't really need to experience either tbh.

disbeliever 01-15-2010 10:29 AM

Porn is a bad thing?

machievelli 01-15-2010 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth333 (Post 2700985)

I think that the first thing is to define what porn means as the concept seems to vary quite a lot...at least for some people.

Still the notion of what's acceptable and what is not varies a lot from a culture to another. I was reviewing movie ratings a few months ago just for fun and while we are just across the border (Quebec, Canada - movie rating is of Provincial jurisdiction and not national), several movies rated R or NC17 in the US due to their sexual content were rated 13+ (teenagers) or even G here and in several cases it was vice versa for violence...

Back during Nixon's first administration they created the President's committee on Obscenity and Pornography. The idea was the Feds could create a 'rationale' for what was really porn, and the States could create laws using it to restrict what they wanted to.

It was the most stacked committee of it's time in history. Mothers of teens, churchmen, conservative business people. The kind you would think have a specific idea in mind. After about 20 million dollars and two years, their decision was 'Porn is in the eye of the beholder'.

Everyone has that one kink that to them is erotic, and to anyone else is just plain sick. My ex worked briefly at a phone sex place, and lost her job because a caller started in on his specific kink and she busted up laughing. She was still chortling as they cut her last check.

As to what that kink was, of for that matter what mine might be, use your imagination...

Tobias Reiper 01-15-2010 06:35 PM

I don't really care whether or not Pr0n is bad or violent games are bad for kids, because they (the kids) obviously don't, and it's futile to try and stop 'em.
Most kids these days delve into sex anyway, so I don't think watching it really matters at that point, and if a kid's mom won't let him play an M rated game, chances are his friend already has it and they view it anyway.

Blix 01-15-2010 07:08 PM

I'm probably going to regret saying this, but playing violent games has never made me want to go out and suplex old ladies or destroy people's cars with a broom...err, keyblade.

same thing with pr0n, i've never been inclined to throw on a g-string and star in the worst adult film ever because I "might" have seen some bad 80's smut.

case in point: people/kids immitating what they see in movies/games means they're playing too much and need to go out and play some football. As for the adults...well therapy is always an option.

machievelli 01-15-2010 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blix (Post 2701134)
I'm probably going to regret saying this, but playing violent games has never made me want to go out and suplex old ladies or destroy people's cars with a broom...err, keyblade.

same thing with pr0n, i've never been inclined to throw on a g-string and star in the worst adult film ever because I "might" have seen some bad 80's smut.

case in point: people/kids immitating what they see in movies/games means they're playing too much and need to go out and play some football. As for the adults...well therapy is always an option.

Never regret speaking your mind, kid. If you have ever read Mazes and Monsters, the same thing was said about Role Playing games, and comments about how (Insert here) causes unseemly behavior have been said since Ben Franklin, right up to Evils being censored (They showed him only from the Belly Button up on Ed Sullivan in the 60s) because his gyrations were supposed to incite women into frenzies.

It all boils down to 'I don't like it and I wish they would stop themselves'.

As Robert Heinlien in the Moon is a Harsh Mistress said People don't pass laws to stop themselves from doing something, they do it to stop people from doing things that offend them.

urluckyday 01-15-2010 08:57 PM

I think porn can warp a kid's mind to some level of perversion.

However, I think that just like Violent games/movies, the only way the person is going to be affected in a great way is if they have some other sort of problem. I watched a lot of violent stuff when I was a kid...nothing ridiculously gory, but I was in love w/ the old WW2 movies, and I turned out just find. I don't abuse animals, hit women, and I've never even been in a fight, all after watching war, action, fighting movies as a child that were intended for teenagers and even adults.

It all starts w/ parents. Bad parents = bad lifestyle one way or another.

Darth333 01-15-2010 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blix (Post 2701134)
case in point: people/kids immitating what they see in movies/games means they're playing too much and need to go out and play some football.

I think this is overly simplistic.

I remember that one of my past secretaries who had five kids used to cross the street when she'd see a panhandler while accompanied with one of her kids so that they wouldn't have to see "that". She use to say it would "traumatize" them :rolleyes: instead of explaining to them what was going on. I think the same goes with a lot of other things. That being said, it doesn't mean there can't be other influences IMHO, lots of factors come into play... several kids with good parents can also turn towards unexpected things...

Nevertheless, when I was 13 or so, I think every kid in my class had seen a p0rn movie (there was "that" public channel airing soft porn shows at 11Pm every night. Even teachers at high school used to make fun of that show :lol: ).

I believe that education and how things affect children begins with parents and how they explain things and/or react to events when in the presence of their children.

Blix 01-15-2010 11:05 PM

My problem/concern is polliticians zeroing in on videogame violence (or videogames in general) as the reason for growing violence and gun-related crimes. And I agree full-heartedly that the parents need to step in and really differentiate the difference between reality and videogame-reality.

I'll admit that my parents never sat down and gave me a lengthy lecture about it but they did say "that's a videogame, it's fantasy-so you can't go out and do what you see."

I never did, but also common sense plays a big factor even as a kid I knew right from wrong and didn't go out starting fights with people. People who are going out doing those sort of things might have some mental condition or are just trying to get attention for whatever reason.

My main thing is that I don't believe that videogames encourage anyone to be violent especially with the new disclaimers they post on the games. Now maybe impressionable kids maybe encouragable, but with good parenting and plain common sense one should be able to discern fantasy from reality.

juansaman 01-16-2010 01:43 PM

My view here is that por and violence is something we don't like for our kids, but we can't keep the inocence forever, which I think is one of the problems of most of parents.
Sex taboo has damaged human behaviour and morality. A lot. And a lot of people doesn't receive an explanation or any word about it and have to discover their sexuality alone. Or through friends or similar, what could be even worse. Most of people will not have a problem with that, but there is people who can get confussed.

You know what? Nobody is going to avoid that the kids discover and/or enjoy of porn.... Like we all did. It's one of the laws of life.
I caught my 11 years old boy using porn on the internets. After that I could do two things: being mad at him which leads to nothing as that will not change his natural urges, or talk with him, which I did, explaining the difference between porn and reality, and that girls are not meat with holes, and of course, the danger of those sites (mostly about virus). I suggested him to use another kind of material as it seemed me a bit of hardcore and to use his imagination since then when nature calls.
I secretly bought a playboy magazine for him and if he does better at school, I'll give it to him.
I'm not pretending to be a model, but I did what I wished for my father to do with me about that matter.

Violent games? Just let them play when you know they have a bit of a brain to put in place that kind of violence and to not take it too lightly. Letting them to get used to that kind of violence without any meassure leads to an apathy I don't like. If once they play those games they love them or hate them or anything at all, will be their call. I know that my boy knows how to difference a videogame from reality, nevertheless I prefer to let him play Monkey Island and more regular games by the moment, and I'm waiting to play with him Battlefront when I got more free time and see how he reacts when killing a rebel soldier.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:48 AM.

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.