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-   -   will SK die in TFU2? (possible spoilers) (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=202475)

francium34 01-21-2010 01:34 AM

will SK die in TFU2? (possible spoilers)
 
Another thought, since Starkiller is going to be back, how will it end this time?
Some argue that he is too powerful to be left into the movie era, but wouldn't killing the character twice be totally lame?

I had the same idea as some else in the forum, his link to the force can be cut. Willingly, accidentally, whatever. Too many sad endings in starwars stories! Please don't kill him off AGAIN!

Besides, if TFU2 is an even bigger hit, it's easier to bring him back for a third run, right? :)

Harkonnen07 01-21-2010 02:36 AM

Killing him again would be kinda lame, as it would be really stupid to bring him back just to kill him again.

adamqd 01-21-2010 04:03 AM

He's already Dead, and I've yet to see evidence of an acceptable resurrection yet lol, but as I always say, the game is too over the top and SK is too powerful compared to the Main Characters, so canon and movie era problems are irrelevant, because its not G canon anyway.

DarthSlinky 01-21-2010 08:04 AM

What level of cannon is TFU then, gl was in on the project so that has to count for something.

Kurgan 01-21-2010 12:52 PM

All the games are pretty low on the canon scale (though I've stopped caring about Star Wars canon a long time ago... for me it's the original theatrical trilogy and then the prequels, though at times I'm willing to forget the prequels even exist so I can enjoy the originals... and lets be real, Star Wars was written originally to be a stand alone film).

Where games are concerned, the MECHANICS of the game and the player choices really can be ignored. Essentially a condensed version of each game's backstory and characters can be considered part of the EU. When a novel or comic or something comes out about a game, they usually bastardize or water-down the game's story/characters/events and fit that somehow into the canon.

And for your technical folks who follow this stuff, the game story/characters is part of the C-Canon. It doesn't matter if George Lucas wrote every line of code in the game himself, that's not how the G-canon is defined. He's had involvement with a LOT of EU projects, but none of them are considered G-canon (And just FYI, the CGI "clone wars" shows and theatrical movie are in a class all by themselves called "T-canon").

It's interesting to note that back in 1987 they made a Star Wars RPG. The writers were given a lot of freedom to make up backstories and stuff for characters, and mechanics, etc. Lucas didn't seem to care or he gave them tidbits that they expanded upon. A lot of these were forgotten over the years or changed in subsequent EU products, but it seems like a lot of EU novelists and comic writers were either fans of the RPG or they got lazy and cribbed a lot of material from those early sources. So even though the games are pretty much nothing, they have had a lot of influence on the Star Wars story outside the movies. It's funny because though I never played it, after reading the books I realized a lot of the "Star Wars lore" and "facts" I thought I knew were actually taken directly from those games. So why should it be any different with the video games?

So you can think of it like this... something LIKE what happens in the games, happens in the Expanded Universe, and that's how it all fits together. There's no real "rule" that anyone has to follow (other than Lucas' own whims, which aren't based on some grand consistent vision but making money). If Lucas wanted to resurrect a character even if his body was blasted to atoms, he could just give the greenlight and that's that. And while some will say that George is concerned about keeping his story straight and "clean" that's really not that big a deal, considering how fast and loose he plays with his own continuity (movies, special editions, re-edits) and the fact that he probably figures the EU is a cash cow that helps keep the "Star Wars" brand in the public mind, but the percentage of fans who pay close attention to it is minuscule compared to the folks who remember the movies.

But the games can't truly be "canon" because when you think about it, if you jump over a wall and kill two storm troopers in a certain way, is that event now "canon"? Some other player might dodge the stormtroopers. Maybe another player will get killed by the stormtroopers. Which event is canon? Sounds silly, but apparently the folks at the Ranch think about that kind of stuff, and so to keep people happy (they figure fans want a minimum of inclusion of sources in some grand "saga" and they want some minimum consistency) they'll just say something like the games happened and leave it at that.

adamqd 01-21-2010 02:21 PM

^^^ What he said :) hehe

Zerimar Nyliram 01-21-2010 08:12 PM

Yeah, killing Galen again would be an action better left to the Department of Redundancy Department.

Qui-Gon Glenn 01-26-2010 08:09 PM

If he dies, it will be for the first time. I know it appears ridiculous (correction: it is ridiculous), but we never see SK's tombstone, we only see him lying motionless after the Lightning Match with the Dumperor. We assume he is dead because Palpy complains about him now being more powerful than ever (as a martyr, we presumed).

Hard to swallow? You betcha....

TKA-001 01-26-2010 08:31 PM

Quote:

will SK die in TFU2?
Anyone's guess, considering the fact that we know nothing about the story except that there's a Starkiller running around again before ANH who is probably the same person and not a clone.

Everyone was so pissed at the fact that he died at all that they never guessed he'd ever be canonically brought back to life. Now that they've broken that one boundary, anything can happen.

Personally, I hope he dies a much more gruesome death this time around and (for bonus points) stays dead. Killing him again won't make the overall story any worse because it was already a bone-headed idea to bring him back (by any means) in the first place. They don't have much to lose at this point.

Blix 01-26-2010 09:05 PM

It's unlikely LA will kill him off anytime in the near future, especially if TFU does well with this title and potentional future titles.

Qui-Gon Glenn 01-26-2010 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blix (Post 2703725)
It's unlikely LA will kill him off anytime in the near future, especially if TFU does well with this title and potentional future titles.

How much can they squeeze from this rock? The timeframe already is tight, and if things start overlapping movie-timelines, then.... well, what can I say, GL has done it before, and again, and again.

This, IMO, has to be the last TFU. They can make a new game with the same engine, it would have to be called something else, or a different character would need to be the protagonist. Starkiller's fifteen minutes are surely up after TFU2.

Blix 01-26-2010 10:26 PM

^
True. I agree that they can only do so much with SK, in fact TFU probably should have been his final appearance leaving the door open for Rahm to train a force-sensitive to take his place for TFU-2.

In truth they probably should have handled it like in KOTOR/TSL and end SK's chapter with the first game, not to mention the tribute ceremony now seems moot or irrelevent with what we know about TFU-2.
They should've killed him, like how Revan's tale was over in KOTOR (& if a K3 is ever made I doubt the Exile will be returning) SK's fate should have been sealed, but LA obviously sees money in the character so sequels and other TFU content will most likely continue albeit depending on how well sales for TFU-2 fare.

TKA-001 01-27-2010 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blix (Post 2703725)
It's unlikely LA will kill him off anytime in the near future, especially if TFU does well with this title and potentional future titles.

People also said that it was unlikely that he would die the first time, and even more unlikely that he'd be brought back. Both happened.

Blix 01-27-2010 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKA-001 (Post 2703824)
People also said that it was unlikely that he would die the first time, and even more unlikely that he'd be brought back. Both happened.


True. There's always too sides to a coin, and LA could lose fans both ways (sorta like Nomura's indecision for an FFVII remake). Of course I think there could be tons of possibilities for a new secret apprentice or maybe 'Emperor's hand' :)

Ghost 01-28-2010 08:44 PM

Killing the main character once, fine, twice, kills the story. Because sure it would be interesting the FIRST time, but the second time it is just old, and nobody will want to play the third game as they will probably know what happens at the end

Zerimar Nyliram 01-29-2010 12:02 PM

Yeah, just look at Neo. His "final" death at the end of The Matrix trilogy felt cheap because they'd already had him die and be resurrected once.

I know I made the case about something from KOTOR being redundant in another thread if they did it with Galen, but here's something that I still maintain would work well, even if it is a tad redundant: make a trilogy out of The Force Unleashed, and then have Galen willingly undergo the process of being cut off from the Force at the end so that he may live a normal life. As we've all discussed, a second (or actually third) death would be cheap, but we can't have him alive and fighting for the Rebel Alliance at the time of the films because it would be an injustice to Luke, who is the galaxy's "only hope." I think if Galen were to aproach Kota and what ever other Jedi are around at the time asking that they please study the ancient ritual and cut him off from the Force, it'd work well because then he can hang low and maybe even serve as a prominent Rebel commander (I liked the costume so much that I've always sort of wished it could have been true).

It's a little redundant, I know, but I believe it to be the lesser of two evils as opposed to yet another death. Remember that the Jedi Masters in The Sith Lords never actually performed the ritual on the Exile, though they were about to. Plus, this is something that did no originate with KOTOR: it goes back further, to the Tales of the Jedi comics, where it was performed on Ulic Qel-Droma by Nomi Sunrider. As such, many fans are sure to associate it with that rather than KOTOR. In fact, Qel-Droma is more renown for it than the Exile is.

Ghost 01-30-2010 10:24 AM

good point, if he were to lay low, then he probably would go seek out the training of other Jedi Masters like Yoda, since this is still before ANH. Unless he just wanted a normal life to be with his gf

bliznez 02-01-2010 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram (Post 2704260)
Yeah, just look at Neo. His "final" death at the end of The Matrix trilogy felt cheap because they'd already had him die and be resurrected once.

I know I made the case about something from KOTOR being redundant in another thread if they did it with Galen, but here's something that I still maintain would work well, even if it is a tad redundant: make a trilogy out of The Force Unleashed, and then have Galen willingly undergo the process of being cut off from the Force at the end so that he may live a normal life. As we've all discussed, a second (or actually third) death would be cheap, but we can't have him alive and fighting for the Rebel Alliance at the time of the films because it would be an injustice to Luke, who is the galaxy's "only hope." I think if Galen were to aproach Kota and what ever other Jedi are around at the time asking that they please study the ancient ritual and cut him off from the Force, it'd work well because then he can hang low and maybe even serve as a prominent Rebel commander (I liked the costume so much that I've always sort of wished it could have been true).

It's a little redundant, I know, but I believe it to be the lesser of two evils as opposed to yet another death. Remember that the Jedi Masters in The Sith Lords never actually performed the ritual on the Exile, though they were about to. Plus, this is something that did no originate with KOTOR: it goes back further, to the Tales of the Jedi comics, where it was performed on Ulic Qel-Droma by Nomi Sunrider. As such, many fans are sure to associate it with that rather than KOTOR. In fact, Qel-Droma is more renown for it than the Exile is.

Uhhhh.... no. Just NO.
Comparing a TFU with Matrix is just a compelete fail- i mean, one is a serious sci-fi with a theme of philosophy and real- life action, and another is a child- game based on a kids' six-movie-tale.

As for KOTOR- well, what can i say;
it was a diferent time- different Era- and the different SITH LORDS themselves- only sith rules were the same (such as "only two" - rule). so, theoraticaly, if SK becomes a jedi (Which is quite likely- we r following the cannon version here, right? light side, blue sabers.....) then there will be no "Need" to have him dead.

Zerimar Nyliram 02-01-2010 12:52 PM

Uh, well, there will be a "need" to get rid of him somehow: because when the time of the movies rolls around, having some other Jedi out there (and as I've explained in another thread, Galen is not actually a Jedi, unless he receives proper training by an actual Jedi, followed by knighting; but that's another discussion) who is more powerful than Luke and easily deals fatal blows to the Empire very much cheapens Luke's significance as the last hope for the restoration of freedom and justice in the Galaxy. And if Galen is still around during the events of the original trilogy, why is he not continuing the struggle against the Empire, and why are his exploits not heard of or their results seen?

That's a major plot hole, my friend. If LucasArts are smart, they have to take Galen Marek out of the picture in order to make way for Luke Skywalker. But like I said, another death would be redundant, so I propose an alternative method.

And, uh, how is comparing all of this to The Matrix not applicable in this respect? A redundant death is a redundant death! It doesn't matter what the story is like, any time you do it, it's cheap.

Also, you can't say Star Wars is for kids and that The Matrix is "serious." They both make use of flashy effects and imaginative alternate realities. Which demographic do you think both franchises appeals to more: the young or the old?

And, uh, it's the Rule of Two. ;)

Zwier Zak 02-08-2010 06:06 AM

1. Oly the preqels are for kids.

2. SA is not as strong as Luke. More trained at the time yes but Luke is the stronger force user overall.

3. I agree SA should be dead. He's just to powerful to be running around in the time of the movies.

Darth Eclipse 02-08-2010 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwier Zak (Post 2705777)
1. Oly the preqels are for kids.

2. SA is not as strong as Luke. More trained at the time yes but Luke is the stronger force user overall.

3. I agree SA should be dead. He's just to powerful to be running around in the time of the movies.


Maybe he gets stuck in the arena?

Zerimar Nyliram 02-08-2010 01:35 PM

"SA"?

adamqd 02-08-2010 05:27 PM

I'm Guessing he means Secret Apprentice

Zerimar Nyliram 02-09-2010 12:52 PM

Ohhhhhh, right.

Zwier Zak 02-10-2010 05:30 PM

Yeah sorry. :P Everyone on the official lucasarts forum call him SA for short and I just kind of stuck with it.

Zerimar Nyliram 02-11-2010 02:47 PM

Well, real fans (geeks) call him Galen Marek because they've read the book and will settle for nothing less pedantic. ;)

Te Darasuum Mandalor 02-11-2010 06:03 PM

If they have a sequal, they will most likely have a third. Or even an FU Online game! That would be something, but that may be kinda copying SW Galaxies.

Ghost 02-11-2010 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Te Darasuum Mandalor
Or even an FU Online game!

No No NO!

An MMO would ruin the whole concept of FU. It was MEANT as a single player game. Haven't you heard of TOR? 2 mmos at a time would take too much energy to work on.

Te Darasuum Mandalor 02-12-2010 07:34 AM

ohh yeah, you are right. Star Wars Galaxies is already enough! LOL

TKA-001 02-12-2010 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram (Post 2706385)
Well, real fans (geeks) call him Galen Marek because they've read the book and will settle for nothing less pedantic. ;)

Isn't his name in the game manual?

Also, I've read the novel. In it, the narrative never refers to Galen by his name or even his code name when it is told from his point of view. Even after he learns that his name used to be Galen, it's still "the apprentice jumped to the shore" instead of "Galen jumped to the shore", and he seems to regard Galen as a different person from himself. It was a really neat little narrative device, and because of it, I personally like to just call him "the apprentice".

Zerimar Nyliram 02-12-2010 02:10 PM

Yeah, I was kidding, chief. Hence the winky emoticon.

I don't remember seeing his name in the manual, but you might be right.

Te Darasuum Mandalor 02-12-2010 05:56 PM

Yeah, the name "Starkiller" is kinda dumb and kiddish if you ask me! I think we should refer to him as Galen or the Apprentice. It would just be stupid if he died at the end of this game too, because they will probably make a third, and if he comes back to life AGAIN in the third, it would just be another reason not to play it. I sure hope this one has a logical explination of how he is suddenly alive again. I hope it isn't some sort of dumb reserection. I still look forward to this game though!

Ghost 02-12-2010 06:30 PM

:dozey: Starkiller was a fine name for Marek, it was his codename, and that's why it was chosen. Galen was so badass that Vader had to give him a badass name

Zerimar Nyliram 02-12-2010 07:12 PM

"Starkiller" is too fanboyish for me, and "the Apprentice" makes me think of Donald Trump. So it's Galen (Marek) it is.

Te Darasuum Mandalor 02-12-2010 07:20 PM

[QUOTE=Zerimar Nyliram;2706659]"Starkiller" is too fanboyish for me, and "the Apprentice" makes me think of Donald Trump.:lol:


YOUR FIRED!

Show spoiler



The Idea of Galen returning has kinda grown on me personally!

Can't wait!

Ghost 02-12-2010 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram (Post 2706659)
"Starkiller" is too fanboyish for me, and "the Apprentice" makes me think of Donald Trump. So it's Galen (Marek) it is.

Yh, but then again nobody could know Vader's Apprentice's real identity, or could they? :raise:

Te Darasuum Mandalor 02-13-2010 07:08 AM

good point, maybe the apprentice isn't who we think it is after all!

Ghost 02-13-2010 11:02 AM

... ::

Galen Marek was Starkiller's true name. It was said in the game, it was said in the comics and books, it was said in the resource guide.

Erkiengillinn 02-13-2010 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qui_gon_glenn (Post 2703709)
If he dies, it will be for the first time. I know it appears ridiculous (correction: it is ridiculous), but we never see SK's tombstone, we only see him lying motionless after the Lightning Match with the Dumperor. We assume he is dead because Palpy complains about him now being more powerful than ever (as a martyr, we presumed).

Hard to swallow? You betcha....

...thats just beyond lame. >.<
if they go with that idea (plot "hole") im applying for creative work at LA.
...#1 suggestion, Do not kill characters that you intend on bringing back.
#2 dead characters, stay dead.

anyone?:raise:

Lord Foley 02-13-2010 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bliznez (Post 2704661)
Uhhhh.... no. Just NO.
Comparing a TFU with Matrix is just a compelete fail- i mean, one is a serious sci-fi with a theme of philosophy and real- life action, and another is a child- game based on a kids' six-movie-tale.

The Matrix isn't so much serious as it is melodramatic and hokey. Reminded me of the 'philosophical' discussions I had in 8th grade.

Personally, regardless of whether Galen is or is not more powerful than Luke yada yada... Zerimar is 100% right. I don't remember who it was in this thread (or maybe another thread) who said no one thought they would kill Starkiller in the first game, but the first thing I thought as soon as I heard of 'Vader's Secret Apprentice' was, "Well, at least we know he'll die in the end." He needs to get gone, preferably along with Kota and Maris.


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