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JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan 06-12-2010 02:26 AM

Darth Revan's motive's revealed
This may belong in the TOR forum, but since this is a pissing on of the very core of KotOR, i believe it belongs here.
(also viewable on the TOR Timeline)

That's it. Theyve completely sullied the character of Revan with this pathetic backstory. His unusual motives for turning to the dark side was one of the best illustrations of his unique character; now theyve just made him another stupid sith rebelling against their master. (and, in the process, once again completely ignoring TSL's existence)

I was losing interest in this game before, now i really doubt ill even bother with it.

At least theres the .15% chance that they'll pick up the series again and give us a proper sprpg sequel.


Astrotoy7 06-12-2010 02:27 AM

He? My Revan was a gurl :D


Totenkopf 06-12-2010 02:53 AM

Not sure exactly how you arrive at sullied backstory. Little of it really deviated from the game. We already knew they "rebelled" vs their masters to end the Mandalorian threat. What was never specifically covered in the game was what exactly happened in the period between the end of the Mando Wars and the Jedi civil war. Seems that contact with the Star Forge and maps changed the motivation from betraying the Republic to their having visions of creating a force to rival their newer sith master. When Kreia speaks of a betrayer, she could apparently be talking about Revan as well as anyone else. He betrayed his Jedi masters to fight the Mandalorians, betrayed the Republic for the "true Sith" and then betrayed his new master for his own ambitions and finally his own forces in his "redemption".

But hell, even if you figure they ruined Revan, look what they did to Vader w/the PT. Still surprised?

True_Avery 06-12-2010 03:00 AM

It fits with what we knew in K1. TSL, in my opinion, was a game of poor character choices, and while enjoyable I never understood everyone's praise and love for its writing, story, characters, and so on. The only redeeming quality of the game was Kreia, and it was in her character to tell lies and twist the truth. Most of what we know of Revan's "backstory" was mostly supposition from a well known liar and manipulator.

The further away of TSL's characters and "backstory" the better. I liked Revan, but taking everything Kreia said to heart is not only silly, but actually makes Revan a far worse written character. He literally cannot lose if we're going by Kreia's story. TSL had good writing, but after a few years to reflect its pretty easy to see why Revan has grown to be such a tired, over rated character. The sad part is, Revan was stuck between two sad cliches. He was either the hero we all needed and had every plan thought out ahead of time and was one with the force and so on, or we have him repeating the same Sith fall told in every Sith story in Star Wars history.

My point is, Revan was not a unique character. There was nothing there to sully because he had already drowned in the slop made up of K1, TSL, and the comics. Nothing that could have been done would be right since you controlled him in K1, TSL made him out to be the god king savior of the galaxy forever superman, and the comics collectively spat on what was left after TSL.

*waits for reasons why I'm wrong and Avellone is right*

Rtas Vadum 06-12-2010 03:43 AM

Dispite the fact that I usually have a female Revan(none of those male heads, even with edited textures, are that interesting for me), this seems to nip the smallest of things from TSL, and throw the rest into some acidic pool. While I can see why this would be done, it just seems to pull the KOTOR series(so TOR is an offshoot, of sorts, close enough), back to the same morality that the movies use, and thus the facet of Revan chose the dark-side overall, yet still maintaining some aspects of a Jedi, thus using both sides, doesn't fit that scheme at all.

I really don't want to go as far as to say TSL, Avellone or anyone else that wrote even the smallest part of the game, has perfect writing. I'm just saying it was an interesting take on it, one that I can respect(though I can say the same for KOTOR), it just seems wasteful to trash the aspects they have.

It doesn't bother me so much that the canon for both Revan and the Exile is the light-side path, or that one is male, and the other female. though the whole part about meeting the Sith Emperor in the Unknown Regions, and taking orders from him, and then both Revan and Malak taking the mantle themselves, just puts the cliche right into the light. Like it was damned impossible for Revan to do what Kreia said of him, no matter the reasons why Revan act in the ways he did.

RC-1162 06-12-2010 08:06 AM

Oh good Lord... Part of the reason Revan was so cool was that his origins were so obscure and his life was so unorthodox. I personally would have liked it better if they just left the reason for his fall to the dark unknown. All they should have done was reveal why he went to the Unknown Regions and also what happened to the Exile, but based on the video I guess they made that pretty unappealing too.

JediAthos 06-12-2010 08:23 AM

Like has been mentioned above I don't see how this deviates that much from the story K1 told. Revan did disobey orders in going to fight the Mandalorians...and we knew that Revan and Malak encountered something that caused them to fall to the dark side and return as invaders. So really what they've done is set the Sith emperor as the reason Revan set about dismantling the Republic but leaving major portions of infrastructure intact. It actually makes sense to me...why would the Sith want to rebuild from the ground up when they could just wipe out military and political obstacles while leaving things the new empire would need.

At any rate, can't say this really changes my opinion on anything. I will still play the game when it comes out (and hopefully before then if I can get into the beta)

Mandalore The Shadow 06-12-2010 08:49 AM

This kind of thing is why I hate it when game companies dwell too much on past games

JediAthos 06-12-2010 09:20 AM


Originally Posted by Mandalore The Shadow (Post 2730839)
This kind of thing is why I hate it when game companies dwell too much on past games

Well...when doing an MMO that takes place in a large setting the history of said game world tends to be an important part but I understand where your sentiment comes from.

Taak Farst 06-12-2010 09:22 AM

I honestly don't get the gripes about it. All thats in it is what we already know, and its not changed one bit. you may argue you find out a lot more from kreia, but she was a manipulative liar :L..

mimartin 06-12-2010 01:30 PM


Originally Posted by Taak Farst (Post 2730845)
I honestly don't get the gripes about it. All thats in it is what we already know, and its not changed one bit. you may argue you find out a lot more from kreia, but she was a manipulative liar :L..

Also who did she tell her stories about Revan to? The Exile, IMO the Exile had every reason not to trust or believe Kreia’s stories of Revan's greatness, the Exile was on the receiving end of Revan’s betrayal at Malachor V. Considering that, I can see why Kreia’s version of Revan died on Malachor with her. I can’t see a reason for the Exile to spread Kreia’s pro-Revan propaganda even if the Exile believed it considering what happened at Malachor. Add to that if the Exile departed for the Unknown region right away, when would she have had time to spread the pro-Revan propaganda.

Then let us also remember information was lost during and after the Jedi Civil War. Then add to that information being rewritten for political reasons (much like Texas distorting Thomas Jefferson’s influence on the creation of the U.S because they now disagree with his politics in their new Text Books). History can be and is rewritten depending on who is in power and given enough time it can become what is known to be the truth.

“History is written by the victors.” ~ Winton Churchill

Shem 06-12-2010 02:06 PM

What's up with Revan and Malak being about the same height in that video. ;)

mimartin 06-12-2010 03:04 PM


Originally Posted by Shem (Post 2730914)
What's up with Revan and Malak being about the same height in that video. ;)

Platform Boots

Mav 06-12-2010 08:39 PM

Revan vs. TOR bad guy, who would win?

JediAthos 06-12-2010 11:09 PM


Originally Posted by Mav (Post 2731006)
Revan vs. TOR bad guy, who would win?

Silence! I keel you!

TriggerGod 06-12-2010 11:38 PM


Originally Posted by Mav (Post 2731006)
Revan vs. TOR bad guy, who would win?

you just ruined the last boss battle for everyone :|

purifier 06-13-2010 12:39 AM


Originally Posted by JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan (Post 2730807)

Well that was interesting, and there still leaving Revan's final fate a mystery.

Thanatos9t 06-13-2010 06:29 AM


Originally Posted by Shem (Post 2730914)
What's up with Revan and Malak being about the same height in that video. ;)

Yeah I noticed that as well, also why did Bastila have a double saber in the confrontation with Revan?

But yeah I also don't think it sullies Revans character considering we knew why he had gone into the unknown regions to search for the Star Forge and came back corrupted but now we know why.

Does that mean that Mullet-Man is the canon Revan head? (1:31 in the video)

JediAthos 06-13-2010 09:42 AM


Originally Posted by Thanatos9t (Post 2731069)
Does that mean that Mullet-Man is the canon Revan head? (1:31 in the video)

I think whomever designed and composed the video probably just picked a look that they liked. Either that or they were told what look to use by or the other.

Darth Avlectus 06-14-2010 06:37 PM

Hm. I dismissed this as being too flimsy to work because "What kind of idiot entrusts such a thing [as the star forge] to a couple of new lackeys?", but alas, they did use this story anyways.

I mean, was there no other way? Seriously? Why didn't the sith emperor do it himself if he was so greatly powerful? More I think about it, the less sense it makes to me.

If Revan was not a singular unique jedi, weren't there others more trustworthy to the emperor (or at least less ambitious) that could have been sent? Sure it required someone more or less trusted by the Republic, but having seen what I have about secret infiltration, I'm left scratching my head.

Now it sounds even more flimsy. The 7th timeline which was about the secret infiltrations, is one explanaiton which would hold together but that would raise some serious questions about more of his background and to what extent Revan was raised by the Jedi prior to the mandalorian wars.

Far as the history on Revan, It just ignores TSL and doesn't outright contradict it. That's good. Leaves it open and unsaid.

TSL seems a plausible storyline, and because it doesn't follow typical SW formula as closely but still manages to retain at least a little SW-y feel. Also, it is one example of how not only the galaxy but all life was at one point threatened. Which is good because the SW EU needed something else of significance that was different and it was not the movies or anything similar or too closely related. Just my opinion, though.

Far as the story itself...ok it may not be phenominal but most sequels aren't when in the shadow of their predecessors, unless the predecessor really sucked.

Far as I could see, Kreia's talk about Revan wasn't deception so much as it was speculation, possibly ignorant. She did not speak from a knowing point of view on anything about Revan except on small minor details that could quite easily fit into the plot as outlined. Nothing too significant.

If she was being truthful in her speculation "call from home", then it may well provide a pivotal point for which the Sith Emperor could have manipulated Revan and Malak. Revan's family and heritage. Revan may not have been willing, but there might have been some other subtler means of coercion besides sith sorcery total mind control zombification. Family and origins is as good a place as any to start guessing.

If Kreia was not truthful, well, pay it no mind because it was uninformed speculation.

My enthusiasm for this game, however, is waning again. And since I probably won't be able to get a new computer for it anyways...umm, yeah.

Negative Sun 06-15-2010 05:58 PM

That didn't tell me anything I didn't already know...

Ghost 06-15-2010 06:05 PM

I thought I made this thread already. Oh well. I am sticking to the TSL version of Revan. Case closed.

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