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Tysyacha 08-02-2010 01:09 AM

Dystopia 2030
 
I admit it: sometimes when I think an idea might make a great novel, I get sick of writing it before I hit Chapter 5. Such a thing happened with ULTIMATUM. I really don't believe that America will become a de facto theocracy, after thinking about it long and hard. No matter what our homegrown religious fundamentalists pay for and pray for, I think that the U.S. will continue to be a primarily secular nation. That said, here are some ideas I'm kicking around for a Dystopia 2030 sort of epicwreck (N: a depiction of an epic wreck of our country). Do these things seem possible, or are they just as weird and foundationally sketchy as the scenario for ULTIMATUM? Please vote for the ideas you think I should "run with", and I'll "run with" the ones you think are most plausible.

Thank you!
Tysyacha

JediAthos 08-02-2010 10:38 AM

The Foreign debt scenario is really already happening if you look at it. The United States owes obscene amounts of money to China among others and we continue to spend domestically as well as to give aid to countries who, while likely need it, will never pay it back just as we refused to collect on debts owed to us after World War II and beyond.

Pavlos 08-02-2010 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediAthos (Post 2743324)
we refused to collect on debts owed to us after World War II and beyond.

As a citizen of the United Kingdom, I object. :xp:

JediAthos 08-02-2010 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pavlos (Post 2743329)
As a citizen of the United Kingdom, I object. :xp:

ah..I was misinformed..my apologies...it was my understanding that our government had made no attempt to collect on our war loans and wasn't planning to...good on ya :)

Ping 08-02-2010 11:40 AM

The double digit thing and foreign debt is already starting to happen. A dystopic U.S. would probably have record high crime. Prostitution and drug use - it's legal in parts of Europe, and I'd be okay with legalizing it here; to me, it's that person's choice if they take drugs or start seeing a prostitute. I can see crime going way up, however. Quite frankly, it's easier to get a gun than a pack of cigarettes over here. That could cause some serious repurcussions long-term. I have no clue where criminals get the money for all those weapons.

Litofsky 08-02-2010 12:38 PM

At the poll: why not all of them?

Tysyacha 08-02-2010 04:11 PM

Check out "Iron Heel, Iron Hand"--my first chapter! :) Please comment/leave feedback! ;)

Q 08-02-2010 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ping (Post 2743339)
Quite frankly, it's easier to get a gun than a pack of cigarettes over here.

Quite frankly, unless there's a background check for cigarettes, you're wrong. I've heard that catchphrase several times, and it's as untrue as it is banal. Makes a wonderful sound byte to feed to gullible types, though.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ping (Post 2743339)
I have no clue where criminals get the money for all those weapons.

Maybe it's because they either steal them or buy them cut-rate from the black market. Do you honestly believe that crooks buy their gats legally at the corner gun store? What kind of criminal commits a crime with a traceable firearm? A stupid one.

My prediction for 2030? Oceania.

Tysyacha 08-02-2010 04:49 PM

That's what I'm (slowly) trying to get at with my story, though if I copy Orwell's text, his estate is going to sue me. *LOL*

Ping 08-02-2010 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Q (Post 2743398)
Quite frankly, unless there's a background check for cigarettes, you're wrong. I've heard that catchphrase several times, and it's as untrue as it is banal. Makes a wonderful sound byte to feed to gullible types, though.

Actually, that seems more like an exaggeration, based on what you said. I mean, when my granfather died back in January, we inherited his guns. There was no legal procedure or anything. We just got them. Also, I don't remember background checks being implemented at gun shows.

Lord of Hunger 08-02-2010 08:33 PM

Here's another one:

"The US enters into a civil war, resulting in a WWIII scenario."

Essentially, either victor would result in a world dystopia...provided there was a victor.

Totenkopf 08-02-2010 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ping (Post 2743410)
Actually, that seems more like an exaggeration, based on what you said. I mean, when my granfather died back in January, we inherited his guns. There was no legal procedure or anything. We just got them. Also, I don't remember background checks being implemented at gun shows.

Yeah, getting guns is soooo much easier than cigarettes. :rolleyes: I think it goes beyond "exaggeration". Last I checked, you don't legally have to register your cigarettes either. And, unless you actually know where to look, getting a gun isn't any easier than getting smokes. If you can'y buy the pack yourself, you probably know someone 18+ to do it for you. However, given that smoking purportedly kills more people every year than gun violence in the US, maybe you should have to register your cigarettes. :xp:

Q 08-02-2010 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ping (Post 2743410)
Actually, that seems more like an exaggeration, based on what you said. I mean, when my granfather died back in January, we inherited his guns. There was no legal procedure or anything. We just got them.

How dreadful.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ping (Post 2743410)
Also, I don't remember background checks being implemented at gun shows.

It's only a matter of time and technology before they are. The government would never pass up a wonderful money-making opportunity like that.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord of Hunger (Post 2743429)
Here's another one:

"The US enters into a civil war, resulting in a WWIII scenario."

Essentially, either victor would result in a world dystopia...provided there was a victor.

My money's on the red states. They know how to shoot. :p

True_Avery 08-03-2010 12:06 AM

*Takes a look at all of the options*
*Looks at America*
*Looks at South Africa*

Apologies to everyone in here polishing guns hugging their copy of 1984, but I think the United States has a little more sense than to turn into South Africa within 10 years. Seems like more doomsday predictions that wont come true imo.

Q 08-03-2010 08:28 AM

Apologies to everyone hugging their naive, grossly misplaced trust in our bloated, corrupt government, but more and more of that sense that you're talking about is being systematically eroded away on a daily basis by the "education" system and the media.

Working Class Hero 08-03-2010 12:47 PM

I voted for the donating tissues option. Since people already donate blood & bone marrow , I don't see it as much of a stretch to donate...other things, if they need the money. Especially since one day you could regrow them.

VeniVidiVicous 08-03-2010 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord of Hunger (Post 2743429)
Here's another one:

"The US enters into a civil war, resulting in a WWIII scenario."

Essentially, either victor would result in a world dystopia...provided there was a victor.

I might be missing something here but i'll ask anyway, why would an American civil war spill into WW3??

JediAthos 08-04-2010 09:50 AM

I think all Tysy is trying to do is drum up some discussion to see what might make a good idea for a work of fiction. We're not merely speculating on the state of the world in the future.

@thread...I'll stick by my original statements Tysy...given the sizeable amount of debt the United States already owes to other countries and what not though I could see a combination of debt, unemployment, and another major war creating your dystopia scenario as well.

Tysyacha 08-04-2010 01:14 PM

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Couldn't have said it better myself, Athos. I know I'll never be able to outdo the masters of dystopia (Orwell and Huxley), but that doesn't mean I can't give it a shot and write a story about what a dystopia might look like now that the "telescreen" has come to life, among other things. Thanks! :)

urluckyday 08-17-2010 10:19 PM

I'm not so pessimistic. I doubt any of these scenarios are true in 2030. I think the pre-school one is the most likely simply b/c people are trying to give children a ridiculously early start as it is.

Drunkside 11-23-2010 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Q (Post 2743398)
Maybe it's because they either steal them or buy them cut-rate from the black market. Do you honestly believe that crooks buy their gats legally at the corner gun store? What kind of criminal commits a crime with a traceable firearm? A stupid one.

And what kind of a criminal do you think is the most common? IŽd say stupid.

Darth Avlectus 11-24-2010 04:31 AM

Quote:

Unemployment is at double digits all across the U.S.A.
Good possibility.
Quote:

People start building their resumes in preschool, in preparation for employability
I thought they did that already, or at least that's how far back some will look.
Quote:

You're classified as "Employable", "Unemployable", or "Probationary"
I think that's already happening.
Quote:

Many donate their organs/blood/tissue in order to make a living
No but I see a mandatory default due to budget shortfalls because of poor planning for these reforms.
Quote:

"Actor" and "actress" are almost extinct professions due to CGI
While I can see why you'd say that, I would say not quite, but it's going to be much further along by this time on our present course.
Quote:

Crime, drug use, and prostitution are at record highs
Cyclical. I'm going to tell you what I learned in economics, "it depends".

Those inclined to think along doom and gloom with conspiracies likely will see it increasing. Sure things like numbers might increase but so does a population over time as we have seen. Hell, we saw the world population increase from 6 billion to 7 billion in, what 10 years or less?

We'd have to view it w.r.t. proportion to population size to see what a disaster this really would be. This and a number of other factors.

Quote:

The U.S. economy is almost wholly dependent upon foreign trade/debt financing
No I see us waking up as people and trying to fight it. Don't get me wrong, I love certain of our imported products. However, int'l. trade is a good bit of what got us in this mess we're in.

I see little we can do. I think those in power on all sides want us to have an international, borderless country dependent on a world banking model, wanting us to just STFU and let them extend their reach into every facet of our lives.

Governments and corporations are essentially the same in my eyes: 2 hogs fighting over a steak, and we the people between them. Are we going to let them turn us into a squirrel or are we going to fight them and be another hog in the fight?
Quote:

There is literal "debt slavery"--your creditors make you work for them
I don't see this happening by 2030, but I do see them trying much, much harder to do it by that point. We do not have debtors prison, and I can see this happening before slavery to be honest. Then again, prison is not much different.

I have a suggestion as to how we might start moving away from credit debt in our daily lives:

While folks like Jon Ralston at LV sun and NBC news channel 4 in Las Vegas laughed along with the mockery made to Sue Lowden* (and by extension insulting the Amish--who live a HELL of a lot more economically balanced lives than us) for raising the "barter option", I can say that trade without involving money is an equitable and reasonable thing that people have done throughout our history on this planet, and will continue to do so. Would not surprise me if big business advocates (hypocritically) also decry it.

*(Nevada primary candidate for US senate these midterm elections, 2010)

But whatever, the same people talking about how we Americans need to be knocked down a peg from our modern life will attack the very thing they don't even realize they're advocating in the long run, just because it's "the (insert political affiliation) thing" to do.

I have used trade and barter many, many times personally throughout my life. Likely so has anybody else--it's practiaclly unavoidable unless you're living an insipid life in some isolated world. You could say that a subculture of this country is our local markets (farmer's markets, flea markets, etc.)in which we trade--mini economies which are the pulse of the little people.

RELEVANT Long and short: If I can trade and negotiate services for doctor's appointments, or trips to the dentist, I will. If I have to fix power tools for a shop foreman in order to have something specially machined, I will. Sure the accounting is there with currency as the standard that would otherwise be involved, but it isn't involved if it doesn't have to be. The only things changing hands are services, invoices, and handshakes when it's all over.

Arguments:
"It's outdated and out of style."
:rolleyes: There's a saying "If it works, use it--if it keeps working, stick with it." Oh wait, that's two sayings in one.

"It's out of touch and from a long time ago"
People still do it today, almost subconsciously. Never stopped. Difference now is we primarily use money.

"The world has moved on from that, we have <insert market, and blahblahblah>, you need to live in the real world of here and now."

If the world has moved on from it, why is it still going on?

"We need currency. It's impractical not to have it."
It's impractical to completely eliminate currency, it is not impractical to reduce use of currency. Yes we do need it, though the reason currency was originally invented was because goods to be traded may not have met one trader's needs at a particular time. The concept of barter and trade still exists and it still works.

Quote:

The two-party political system has been officially abandoned
Not sure how that would work. Maybe if all the various large groupings were more independent from each other.

I.E. Fiscally conservative democrats were a separate group from general democrats; you'd have libertarians in general; Traditional conservatives and secular conservatives; Green Party, as opposed what I'd like to call "Green Marketeers**; moderates; liberals separate from progressives; and let's not forget independents.

**Those who perhaps are a bit more moderate or even conservative but still have beliefs in preservation of the environment, and have different and more practical ways of going about it as opposed to purely idealistic, also are markedly for finding transitional solutions that *do not* overly detriment the economy. Purely my naming but it is *not* a new idea (feel free to use it, though). Being ex Green myself, I still like to pride myself on advocacy of self sustaining, clean energy solutions for every household--every man producing most if not all of the power he uses. That is the ultimate of energy independence. I credit the Nikola Tesla as father of the modern household energy independence concept. It isn't 100% practical, but I think it's a start.

Quote:

There is a "Great Collapse"--the Great Depression x 10
We're definitely not "out of the woods" yet. While I m thankful our president did not nationalize the banks, I do believe there is a lot of reconciliation to be done. The foreclosures are troubling: if the banks are not compliant with the print of their own agreements and have seized property only to try now to sell it to somebody else...what will happen? Will our gov't. seize the assets (similar to how De Rothschild did)?

You'll forgive my speculation:

I see a China world power rising. Most of the world will come to rely upon a chinese centric Asia in the world market. Also, though only time will tell, I do not believe the Chinese wish to be too friendly with the U.S. for very much longer as a matter of ascending to mantle of economic world power. Their vast population and land occupation will inhibit them from being able to give independent transportation to its people in a ratio like America has already done. Still, they will try to buy everyone they can and pull them away from the U.S. Some countries will remain loyal but America will likely face some setbacks at the least.

What china doesn't have is original ideas. We still have innovation and we needn't give up our ideas.

I do not believe the rest of the world will rise to our standards of living, often what happens is the high end gets dragged down to everybody else's level.

We could become our own producer again. I don't see why we have to buy everybody's trash when we slip. Sure it'll drive costs up, but that's the price we'll have to pay. It isn't protectionism or anti trade, isolationism or xenophobia, it's self sustainism. Investing in our own firms is investing in our own country. Why don't we just give up our farming? Because it is strategically wise in the case of a world disaster (long overdue according to geologists) we need something to produce our own food in case we're cut off from the rest of the world. Because international trade has sold our jobs overseas.

It was possible to simply work long and hard to make your fortune, once. It is now no longer. An education will only guarantee an education and promise some consideration over others. It seems in this age that is your best hope as it is almost unheard of anymore to become something purely by trade and training anymore. Still a generalist seems to adapt well due to experience and pragmatism--even so it's hard. Combining general pragmatism and education is one's best bet.


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