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-   -   TFU 2 contradiction? (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=205565)

thelazygent 10-04-2010 02:23 PM

TFU 2 contradiction?
 
On the main website, it stats that

"Darth Vader has failed. His apprentice has proven worthless in helping him defeat the Emperor and in fact has helped give rise to the Rebellion. But, the Sith Lord has not given up so easily. In secret, Vader has cloned the original Starkiller and held him prisoner on the remote planet of Kamino. His purpose to create the ultimate Sith warrior and once again use him to challenge the authority of the Emperor. "



In TFU 1, I believe that from the point when Vader found him, he consulted the emperor about the boy and they decided to use him to find the rebels. The first time Vader Betrays SK when he stuck a lightsaber through his body, I thought that was just an act put on by Vader and Palp to sell the deception .

After betraying him again on the snowy planet, SK asked Vader "you never planned to destroy the emperor" Vader says "Not with you, no".

On the deathstar after SK died, Palp said "he was meant to root out the rebels".


IM confused. So my Q is, is there a contradiction here? In the info on the main site, it says Vader wants to destroy the emperor and that he was robbed of his chance when SK died, but the events of TFU 1 make me believe that he was just using SK from when he was born to root out the rebels. Or maybe I just misinterpreted the story in TFU 1.

deesnyder 10-04-2010 02:36 PM

what you assume is correct.... LA can never stick to what they write... or maybe to not spoil the story for the others who haven't played it yet....

TKA-001 10-04-2010 03:50 PM

It's not all that important what the main website says; compared to the game, novel, etcetera, it's a secondary source at best.


Quote:

In TFU 1, I believe that from the point when Vader found him, he consulted the emperor about the boy and they decided to use him to find the rebels. The first time Vader Betrays SK when he stuck a lightsaber through his body, I thought that was just an act put on by Vader and Palp to sell the deception.
This I can't buy. If Vader hadn't ended up faking the apprentice's death on the Executor, he could have been sent on the mission to find the rebels and he would never have questioned the assignment like he did (Vader's betrayal was one of the main things that made the apprentice reconsider his motivations and goals).

thelazygent 10-04-2010 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKA-001 (Post 2751146)
It's not all that important what the main website says; compared to the game, novel, etcetera, it's a secondary source at best.



This I can't buy. If Vader hadn't ended up faking the apprentice's death on the Executor, he could have been sent on the mission to find the rebels and he would never have questioned the assignment like he did (Vader's betrayal was one of the main things that made the apprentice reconsider his motivations and goals).

I guess my Q is what happened on the Executor. Was it an act or not?

Scenario 1: Vader finds SK as a boy , goes to Palp and lets him know he finds a force sensitive child, and they discuss it. Palpatine tells Vader to train the boy so they can hunt down the last of the Jedi and any rebels to the empire. On the Executor, Palpatine tells Vader to strike SK down and prove his loyalty, but they are just selling the deception so that when Vader "saves" SK, SK will think that Vader still wants him as his apprentice and SK will feel more angered about the emperor and do his job of hunting down people with more vengeance.

or

Scenario 2: Vader finds SK as a boy, trains him without the knowledge of the Emperor, really does plan on destroying the emperor with SK. Vader calls starkiller to his ship, gets stabbed in the heart. Then Vader and Palp talk and they decide to save SK so that he can root out the rebels, even though Palp is pissed at Vader for raising an appretice.

What Scenario happened 1 or 2?

gta967 10-05-2010 03:03 PM

Scenario 2, since he is vaders "Secret Apprentice."

thelazygent 10-06-2010 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gta967 (Post 2751257)
Scenario 2, since he is vaders "Secret Apprentice."


Then why did this happen?

SK asked Vader "you never planned to destroy the emperor" Vader says "Not with you, no".


Its confusing

gta967 10-06-2010 05:31 PM

vader says two words shortly before that, knowing what they are, can you really trust anything he says?

thelazygent 10-06-2010 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gta967 (Post 2751445)
vader says two words shortly before that, knowing what they are, can you really trust anything he says?


? Vader does not say 2 words shortly before that


He says "I lied, as I have from the very beginning" in response to SK saying " You agreed to stay away"


Get your facts straight

TKA-001 10-07-2010 08:21 PM

department of redundancy department
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thelazygent (Post 2751458)
? Vader does not say 2 words shortly before that

Yes, he does. He says, "I lied". That sentence (or phrase, if you believe that it and "as I have from the very beginning" are both one sentence like in the novelization) is two words, and by the cutscene's timing, is uttered approximately eleven seconds before "Not with you, no". The "very beginning" which he says he has been lying since refers to when he first gave the apprentice his mission to find potential rebel leaders.

Darca Lar 10-08-2010 11:26 PM

When it comes to Ol' Palpie and his "foresight", things are always a bit fuzzy. Especially when he says its all going as planned no matter the situation.

Samnmax221 10-09-2010 02:59 AM

Wait till you see the ending. Better yet, don't buy this piece of ****.

deesnyder 10-09-2010 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samnmax221 (Post 2751747)
Wait till you see the ending. Better yet, don't buy this piece of ****.

I too heard that the story is pathetic... is it really that bad??? Everybody in this forum seems to be blind and keeps praising the first game when the story was pathetic... It seems this too will be a let down...

Samnmax221 10-09-2010 10:42 PM

It's more than a let down, because George has decided that it's movie level canon now and it's probably going to start retroactively ****ing up the entire EU worse than ever.

Master-Kyle-Leeson09 10-09-2010 11:07 PM

Palpatine's considered a master of psychology--able to predict how his tools will think and plan accordingly.

Vader was tortured by his killing his wife and getting roasted alive on Mustafar. At the end of Revenge of the Sith, the book Matthew Stover wrote, he says that Vader attempted to use the Force to kll Palpatine, but stopped because...

Because he realized that now the Emperor was all he had left of his former Jedi life. Someone who trusted him. I think revenge was heavy on Vader's mind up until he fought Obi-Wan on the Death Star.

My guess is Vader saw SK (then a boy), realized here was his chance to get even with Palpatine for using him all along, and tried to make SK in that vision. Vader tried to make it look like he was doing "only what was necessary" to get SK in a position to help defeat the Emperor and take his place.

Why else would he kill SK and have him revived in secret? Vader tried a simple deception, but didn't expect SK would question his motives and all.

"I lied, as I have from the beginning."
"Not with you, no."

Vader recognized SK was changing and attempted a complex tactic to anger SK into attacking the Emperor, reasoning that if his Secret Apprentice understood Palpatine was pulling the strings all alone, SK would want to destroy Vader's Master first out of revenge.

Figuring this out? Think like Vader and SK. It makes sense to me. Hope this helps.

starkiller1157 10-13-2010 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelazygent (Post 2751141)
In TFU 1, I believe that from the point when Vader found him, he consulted the emperor about the boy and they decided to use him to find the rebels.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the rebel alliance wasn't formed until after his death! I'm sure there were people rebelling against the Empire, but it had yet to be started, until Starkiller rounded up the key people(Senator Organa, General Kota, Senator Mon Mothma...)

Every Sith always attempts to destroy his master and take the "head" title. Vader saw young Starkiller as his chance. And we know very well that Vader wants to kill the Emperor at the ending of RotS, which he realized he sacrificed everything only for his wife to die in the end.

I don't think the Emperor knew of Starkiller until that cutscene from TFU1, when Vader appeared-or whatever-to betray him.

In Vaders reply to the emperor "he was ment to root out the rebels" Vader said, "but now we know who they are?" I think that proves Vader and the Emperor had little info on the rebels.

And when the emperor said, "and this alliance that we have unwittingly created, will be our undoing." I don't think they planned this from the moment Vader found young starkiller. If so, why wait so long? If there were rumors of rebels, they would be smart to strike when their at their weakest point.

Idk, makes some sense to me. A lot of game obvious has influence from the prequels, sadly, but still...

Master-Kyle-Leeson09 10-14-2010 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starkiller1157 (Post 2752180)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the rebel alliance wasn't formed until after his death! I'm sure there were people rebelling against the Empire, but it had yet to be started, until Starkiller rounded up the key people(Senator Organa, General Kota, Senator Mon Mothma...)

Every Sith always attempts to destroy his master and take the "head" title. Vader saw young Starkiller as his chance. And we know very well that Vader wants to kill the Emperor at the ending of RotS, which he realized he sacrificed everything only for his wife to die in the end.

I don't think the Emperor knew of Starkiller until that cutscene from TFU1, when Vader appeared-or whatever-to betray him.

In Vaders reply to the emperor "he was ment to root out the rebels" Vader said, "but now we know who they are?" I think that proves Vader and the Emperor had little info on the rebels.

And when the emperor said, "and this alliance that we have unwittingly created, will be our undoing." I don't think they planned this from the moment Vader found young starkiller. If so, why wait so long? If there were rumors of rebels, they would be smart to strike when their at their weakest point.

Idk, makes some sense to me. A lot of game obvious has influence from the prequels, sadly, but still...

Emperor probably didn't know anything of Starkiller until he came (as the Jedi Galen Marek) to the Death Star. Still, it's strange how Empy figured Starkiller would help root out the rebels given he didn't trust Vader a lot.

I imagine TFU2 will add to this speculation.

Samnmax221 10-14-2010 11:03 PM

What a tweeeeeest.
spoiler:
Really just poor writing


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