Ellen Degeneres speaks to openly gay 14 year old Graeme Taylor
 

Opinions?

Personally, I feel that this boy is going to change the world's views on homosexuality. Perhaps finally the hetrosexuals will finally be able to accept the bisexuals and homosexuals. He is completely inspirational and makes me want show everyone that homosexuality is not wrong...

Well, there is alot things in this world that are just not right and it doesn't matter what you do to convey justification or insight this is never ever going to change.

Society, stance, similair and opinion might sway and may even break but everyone really already knows what is right and wrong.

Be happy but understand, there is no way you can make this sit right.

This is really goddamn incoherent.

He's a really good talker and orator but I reallly doubt his speech and exceptional aplomb are going to convince bigoted people of their own bigotry. Time certainly didn't.

I think I just got a hard-on.

That was being kind. EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT IS RIGHT AND WRONG????!!?!!!!!!!!?!!!111one11!!!

Thank you for bringing omniscience to the thread and being our moral compass - but can you clarify anything that you wrote?

It has come to something when people require an eloquent kid to remind them that their idiotic, bigoted views are wrong...

I completely agree. And Ctrl Alt Dlt (I think that's your name haha) You're probably right, but... it would be nice if they could finally see that homosexuality isn't wrong. That we all have a place in the world and that they shouldn't judge people by who they like.

lol

Here I was thinking there'd be a variety of opinions and views, mine just being a generic overview, nothing specific or exact

But I can see I wondered out of my depth, into a club as such; the reason that I didn't elaborate or be too specific is because if you're on one side you are sensitive and if you're on the other you're insensitive

Now I'm not personally worried about anyones sexual orientation but I do believe it is 100% wrong if you perfer to be in a sexual relationship with the same gender, it's like a lot of things in this world, if it feels wrong it generally is... (I know you won't feel it's wrong but try and relate it to something else that falls into this category)

humans have a wonderful way of making there point or creating a solid perspective and can convince and recruit the weak minded or idealistic but hit a wall with the strong minded or realistic types. (again, I know these terms are very general but I can't flood the post with every possible adjective or exact identification)

Now I understand your craving for acceptance, but you won't ever get genuine acceptance outside your peers and the idealistic recruited

You start looking at all the other strange sexual orientated preferences of some other factions out there; if you believe you are right to be as you are, why aren't they? (and be careful here since now you've used a minor to endorse your lifestyle, age of consent is now out the window)

enjoy, I'm out of here :-D

Next time you should just be specific... >.> You had all of us confused.

Why? Because you're one of the narrowminded that believe that all who are different will rot in hell, like most Christians do? I've got to say... I'm bisexual and I'm a Christian... isn't it God who asks us not to judge others? Well by telling someone that their sexual preference is wrong or that they're going to hell because of it... (or for whatever reason) you're judging us. The Bible says that the only one who should be judging is Himself. I don't judge people based on their sexual preference, whether it be hetro, bi, homo or whatever else there is... you shouldn't either.

Oh? And how long do you think it'll be until "everyone" is a peer or one of the idealistic recruited? Hmm... there was a silent war that went on to gain African Americans rights in the United States... they won... now think about what happens when you have an entire world rallying under one banner... hmmm... just think that sometime in the future, our kids can be free to claim their sexuality without fear of being called a freak or an abomination.

Who is to say they aren't right in their preference? Certainly not I. As stated, I say if you're attracted to it, you're attracted to it. It's not your fault. All of our brains were created differently, as with each snowflake, they're unique.

Alright... bye now. =^.^=

Just because a particular group, which happens to include yourself, feels that something is wrong doesn't make it a fact. I and many other people think eating sushi is wrong; after all, why would anyone voluntarily force that kind of disgusting food down their throats? But alas, just because I think it's gross doesn't make it an irrefutable fact. And even if I can convince the world that sushi tastes bad, that doesn't make it an undeniable fact; it makes it the opinion of the majority. There's a difference. Learn that difference now, or you'll have a terribly difficult time of things in life.

You're right. Everyone knows, or should know, that there's nothing inherently wrong with homosexuality. Those against it will come around when they realise it doesn't do anyone a damned bit of harm - when they realise that their baseless opposition to it does worlds more harm then one's inherent sexuality does.

You mean sit right with you. Most of the rest of the world, here in the 21st century, doesn't really give a rat's ass who their neighbours want to ****.

Translation: If you wanna be gay then I can't stop you, but it's wrong because it feels wrong to me and people who think like me. And there are so many of us that we must be in the right. If you agreed with us you'd totally like, agree with us.

So are you calling those who accept and respect homosexuality "weak minded or idealistic"? And that would make bigots and fear-mongers such as yourself the "strong minded or realistic types", right? Give me a break. Opposition to any form of consensual adult relationship is not "strong minded or realistic", it's close-minded, conceited, and self righteous.

So you're saying that just because the day of universal equality isn't in sight there's no point in even trying. We should just let the LGBT community have their fundamental rights suppressed until they conform to your twisted vision of what reality should be. The 20th century civil rights movement was what, then, an exercise in futility? If so, no one's told us here in Canada yet. I sat next to a negroid at the front of the bus just this week. And I could've sworn my mother and fiancée both voted recently. Someone should put a stop to that nonsense ASAP.

And you've just proved once and for all that you don't know what you're talking about worth ****. There's a huge difference between bringing a consenting adult member of the same gender to your apartment to do the beast with two backs, and taking advantage of the naivety and innocence of a child to satisfy your sexual desire.

Be sure the door hits you in the butt on your way out.

Slayer93 - wow. I will play nice, as mimi has just asked, but goodness.... you need to come with a lot more than that to make a good impression around here.

I laugh at your insinuation that you have wandered (oh, that's right, you wondered) into a club. The LF Forums, where we are all gay, or have been recruited to the gay friends club. I will grant that many here at LF are sympathetic to gays and their rights.... it is a symptom of education and intelligence that results in tolerance if not outright acceptance.

And now you are out of here? You joined just to make a ludicrous statement and then run for the hills?!? Bravo, glad you left.

Reality disagrees:

http://www.bondmag.net/images/g_imag...geMap_Wiki.png

You seem to be subscribing to the idea that morals are an unchanging, absolute thing set in stone. It isn't. 50 years ago coloured people in the US had to fight hard to be allowed to even go to the same school as whites. Today, the US has an African-American President. Morals change, all the time, regardless of how many people sit there on their high horses with their stone tablets and arrogantly declare that out of all the countless moral stances out there, they possess the one true right one.

How awfully kind of you.

I don't like to make decisions based on gut feeling.

More arrogance -- "there's me and those who think like me, and then there's the weak-minded who easily fall prey to immorality".

"Your"? Do you assume that the only people who support homosexual rights are the gays themselves?

Apples and oranges.

Doesn't follow.

Buh-bye :) !

When a ****hole like South Africa has better policies than your country does, ick.

^^^ That's a dangerous game you are currently playing, Samnmax221.... I know, because I play as often as I can too :)

Oh my god, though, does this mean I am straight? But I posted something supporting homosexual rights in this thread....

Oh God! On Christmas I have to do this soul searching? Santa, Jesus, if you are listening, I need my old Paulina Poriskova poster back....

Trying to cram an unpleasant, unwelcome and unwanted belief down another's throat. Now, what other groups are notorious for doing just that? I'm sure we can all think of more than one. Is one group less guilty of psychological (or sexual) harassment than the other simply because their cause happens to be more politically correct at the moment?

Not advocating either side, but think about it.

Actually, most groups try it. Global warming. Evolution, Creationism, Christianity, Muslim, Atheist, communist(socialist), Capitalist, pretty much any of them. Except maybe Buddhist. They are more like, "believe what you want, just don't kill me."

I base my beliefs off of Christian values, but before you start belittling me and telling me I am a hateful bigot, an uneducated tool or a close-minded jerk-off, let me get a word in edgewise.

I, personally, don't like homosexuality. I tolerate it from most, and can accept it from close friends or family. I don't judge those who choose that lifestyle (or are born with it, w/e) but I prefer not to support it.

You do who makes you happy, and I'll do who makes me happy. Gender preference? MYOFB.

Ok, I think you are none of those things.
That is fine! However, would you hinder it if you could? And if you would, what would give you that right? Your Christian values?

I always want to make this distinction... are "Christian values" what the Church deems valuable, or what Christ deemed valuable? I see a sizable divide in those POV's. Christ, akin to the Buddha, was the live and let live type... the Church has time and again been less tolerant. Who is right? The Church, or the guy the Church is based on?

I am not gay. Neither are you. No amount of Justin Timberlake/Bieber begging for us is going to change that. So why do you even care what gay people do? Does it really affect you that much, as to be bothered by what two consenting adults choose to do?
I just don't understand the hostility, or the fear, that is expressed in this last statement. It comes off as homophobia, which is look-in-the-mirror time, IMO.

Considering he could be so arrogantly condescending as to tell people what they can/can't do in their privacy, but isn't, this seems reasonable. I think he was merely claiming neutrality is all. To me it came off as more "Tolerant, but do not ask me to defy my faith".

Now I think you're reading more into it than is actually there to be honest. :¬:

Jesus never said anything (That was deemed valuable enough to be written down and not edited out) about homosexuality.

I wouldn't be too surprised if the fundies who've spent so long denying redaction and documentary hypothesis, start making their own edits to the New Testament to justify what horrible ******* lives they live.

Firstly I would like to make a rather large objection to this thread, which is that a person, a human being is defined by their "sexuality". Human beings are so much more than being "straight" or "gay". Our sexuality makes up in reality a very small proportion of who we are. The moment you start referring to individuals in categories you consider "bad" you de-humanise them and make it far more easy to cask aspersions on their character. That said in the terms of the conversation I am going to have to use the above labels to articulate my point. Though my "gay" friends, I would usually just describe as friends, as I don't usually classify my friends in conversation such as my "Indian friends", my "female friends" my "retired friends" etc

Essentially this seems like a non-issue to me, no-where in the Bible does it say that non-Jew or non-Christian has to adhere to Christian (or Jewish law), although they will be judged by it. However Christianity, under Jesus (and Paul) was never a religion which forced those outside it by compulsion or law to adhere to it. As such while I maybe a Christian, and I may have my own thoughts on homosexuality, that has no impact upon societies laws, nor upon my friendships with others (several of my best friends are gay). I don't care if the state recognizes gay marriage or not, and I dare say that some of my gay friends would make far better parents than many straight couples I know, so why shouldn't they adopt? I know, no-one can quote me a Bible passages saying that gay-couples shouldn't adopt.

Also making homo-sexuality illegal doesn't achieve anything; people aren't going to stop being gay due to it being illegal. There is a further question here, if the majority of a country is "secular" should they be ruled by the rules of a minority? Also to point out in the New-Testament Paul writes about homosexuality outside the Church, but aside from saying believers should not involve themselves in such relationships he says nothing of what those outside the Church should do, asside from saying they don't know better, so the believers should show them love and mercy, and explain the Gospel to them. Explaining the Gospel, is explaining the need for Jesus, his love, and loving others; not things that are forbidden. How does this look?

I remember in my first year at University two of my room-mates were a Lesbian couple, and they used to come along to every event the CU put on, until one of the Christian girls announced to them they were both going to hell for being gay. Just a quick Christian Theology 101, but the Bible is pretty clear that you go to hell for not believing in Jesus; the Bible says all have (believers or non believers) fallen short of the Glory of God. In general Christian Theology, it is not an individuals sexuality which decides where they are going; there will be gay people in heaven, indeed I think some of those Christians who are so anti-gay may well NOT be in heaven. But that is for someone far wiser than me to judge...

The curiosity to me of these Christians who are so cruel towards gay people is that they don't act in a manner of mercy or love that aforementioned Jesus and Paul would. Indeed, Phillip Yancey who is a Christian writer somewhat critical of the Church points out, at some Gay Pride Marches, the Gay marchers would have boards saying "Jesus loves me", while so called Christians would have banners filled with hatred and vitriol - it reminded me a lot of the Pharisee's, Jesus fought against in the Bible. The only people through the Gospels accounts of Jesus is ever "harsh" towards is the Pharisee's, not the "sinners"...

So what do I think of homosexuality? My gay friends it would seem to me, did not choose to be gay, with one of them, I could tell from when he was 12 years old that he was going to be gay. The psychological evidence also suggests we are not 100% gay or 100% straight, but that it is a sliding scale. I also think that you can be Christian and gay (and shock horror practising); I say this because the Bible says all sin is bad, so if you are a Christian reading this, you know that woman you lustfully looked at... In the eyes of God that's just the same as an individual in a gay relationship.

It finally seems to me that there is a great deal of fear from some Christians of gay people, I may suggest that this is related to a deep and profound insecurity in their own sexuality rather than that of gay people. Indeed, the reaction of gay people toward Christianity, I think is of the Churches own making, the Church should be there to pick up and look after those with who society disdains. Instead the Church for a considerable while led the persecution of gay people so is it any surprise gay people don't like the Church? People should think the Church is a place to go for safety, help and sanctuary, however many in the West, think of the Church as judging, mean and narrow minded. I think personally they would be right to do so, so if your a Christian I think the far greater issue that the "gay debate" is to turn the Church into what it should be, rather than telling "non-Christians" how they should live their lives...

j7's shiney 2 cents...

^People are always afraid of what is different...it's just human nature to fear anything that upsets the established "order." Not condoning it...I'm just trying to explain it.

No, I don't have a moments thought that VP is anything different than what he claims to be. I was making a point though, that I see echoed somewhat in another post here.

@urluckyday: of course. But as it becomes more human "natural" to be gay, should our views not adapt?

Sure, why not? I think it has at least somewhat to this point.

Ah, gotcha.

uh yeah...then, what does "everyone " mean? "Nothing" or "just some people", which means the same...? Sorry, you lost me, right there.... huh!?!...As a "westerner", did you ever read about ancient Greece?..and even more "recent" authors?

Besides what is the problem when two people love each other? I couldn't care less about what two consenting people do in their bedroom: it doesn't hurt anyone and even the better if they love each other. As a Christian "offspring" (or whatever you want to call it) of an ex-catholic nun and priest (lol), I have always been taught that the objective of Christianity was to be inclusive and to make life better while thinking about others, not worse, so where's the problem?

Also, in addition to what J7 said, that it could be psychological thing, I'd say that it can also be a physiological issue: sex is not always black or white...

According to you.
If it felt wrong, I doubt they would be doing it. Evolution and any similar theory will tell you that people have sex, no matter what kind, because they enjoy it. Those that don't did not pass on their genes.
Which relates to this how?
Says who?
Um, you're presuming a lot about other people's views buddy.
You do that.
Sorry, but it is equally narrowminded to presume that most Christians hold that view, true or not. I was raised to be a Catholic, and I was never taught any such belief. In fact, none of the large variety of priests that visited my church ever espoused such a view, nor did any the various non-clergy community leaders there. I have met a grand total of three Christians in real life who have ever said that homosexuality is wrong but never at any point said that gays will burn in hell.

I personally could care less what anyone does in bed as long as it's consensual and healthy, and either way it's not my business.

Well then maybe it's just the Christians that live around here. They gave the openly gay kids at our High School hell due to their sexual preference. They were absolutely the "fanatics" who believe that their religion and whatever else was right. One kid even told a mormon that he was going to Hell because he was a mormon... but I digress. You're right, it was a generalization that was unfair.

The only way bigotry will end is when Humanity has something else to hate. There's always going to be people to afraid or disgusted by the differences of others. Now, those others will probably not always be people of other races or sexualities. I figure when the bug-eyed aliens turn up around 2012, we'll get a lot of backwood hicks hating on Greens.

I didn't see this earlier, but now that I have, I just want to tell you... I love you. :3heart:

Homophobia Is Gay.

/thread

I'm sorry but at just 14 he is not old, hasn't lived long enough to decide he is gay or not.

^^^ Do you say this as a gay person? Or as a straight one?

Having never been one or the other, how do you have any clue how old one needs to be to determine for themselves, well, anything?

I was simultaneously quite intelligent and hugely ignorant at 14. I did, however, know that I liked girls... a LOT.

What grand age have you attained, Shio, to make this claim about 14 year olds and what they are and are not capable of cogitating?

@Taak - I have often claimed exactly that. Anyone who is serious about their homophobia is hiding something.

Decide? I never decided I am bi, I just am. I've always been attracted to members of the same sex... I'm more attracted to guys than I am girls, but I never had a choice in the matter. I was born bi...

if you're old enough to fap you're old enough to know which gender you'd like to **** with.

hahaha this made me laugh hard.

My thought exactly!! Hahahahahahaha....

Had to look that up though... I am really getting old when I don't know what words mean :(