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-   -   End of an ERA in Space Program. (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=207193)

mimartin 04-20-2011 03:16 PM

End of an ERA in Space Program.
 
I’d like to keep this thread from being really political, but I doubt that will happen.

Right now, June 28, 2011 is the last scheduled fight of the Space Shuttle. Atlantis is planned to make the last Space Shuttle flight STS-135. Enterprise made the first free flight on August 12, 1977 and STS-1 by Columbia launched on April 12, 1981. So after almost 30 years of space flight the Space Shuttle Program will be grounded.

30 years almost seems like an eternity to me for a space craft to be used, however the technology used in the Space Shuttle is even older than that. NASA began working on the Shuttle Program in 1968 (“Houston, Tranquility Base here. The Eagle has landed” did not even happen until July 20, 1969.)
spoiler:
If you don’t know what that is in reference to get the hell out of this thread.

Nixon gave the actual go-ahead for the Space Shuttle program in 1969.

Anyways they are finally retiring this technology. However the awarded locations is causing some controversy.

Discovery is being sent to Udvar-Hazy Center of the Smithsonian Institution’s National Air and Space Museum.

Enterprise is being moved from Udvar-Hazy Center of the Smithsonian Institution’s National Air and Space Museum to Intrepid Sea-Air-Space Museum in New York.

Endeavour will be sent to California Science Center in Los Angeles.

Atlantis will be displayed at Kennedy Space Center Visitor Complex.

“Houston, we have a problem”

As you can imagine Houston is upset by this development. Personally I don’t think you can argue with the Smithsonian or Kennedy Space Center. That leaves New York and Los Angeles. Should they have been awarded a Orbiter over Houston? My heart says no, but my mind says yes. New York and Los Angeles are number 1 and number 2 on the most visited U.S. cities. While Orlando is number 4 and Washington D.C. is number 8, Houston does not even make top 10. Most of the people around here already support NASA, it make sense to me to market the program to the rest of the country and the world. Still it is a shame that Space City will not have a Orbiter.

What are your thoughts on the Shuttle Program? Including where were you when you learned about either Shuttle disaster?

NASA in general?

Orbiter location?

Furture Manned Missions? Including Commander Mark Kelly commanding the planned April 29th final launch of Endeavour?

President Obama and family attending the April 29 launch of Endeavour?

I remember both disasters. The Challenger disaster I watched in disbelief with a bunch of friends on a TV in a junior college waiting area between classes.

During the Columbia disaster I was driving in my car with my best friend to Austin for a UT basketball game. That friend happens to be a computer engineer who works for a NASA contractor. He also happens to work on the Shuttle Program and has since 1987.

Taak Farst 04-20-2011 05:48 PM

We never went to the moon. we have been to space certainly. but we haven't been anywhere.

/thread.

Q 04-20-2011 05:59 PM

Are you saying that you think the moon landing was a hoax?

Taak Farst 04-20-2011 06:15 PM

that's exactly what i'm saying. we haven't been..

edit: it was all political in those days...

it's an obvious hoax..

Liverandbacon 04-20-2011 06:17 PM

I quite like NASA. Back in '03 one of my cousins (I think he was 10ish at the time) entered a joint NASA/Lego competition to name the mars rovers. He showed me the essay he wrote and it was impressive, the names he suggested had obvious relevance, but also contained some pretty deep references to mythology that fit the exploration and observation theme even better. An adopted Russian kid won though, with the unbeatable combo of sad Russian orphanage story and really patriotic names 'spirit and opportunity'.

Then a day later NASA called, said that my cousin had been disqualified because one of the names had been used on a less well known thing, but they were so impressed by how badass his essay and reasoning were that they were going to let him also have the NASA portion of the grand prize. I got to go with him and some other family on a free 4 day Florida trip to watch the rover launch.

So yeah, NASA are pretty cool in my book.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taak Farst (Post 2775056)
that's exactly what i'm saying. we haven't been..

edit: it was all political in those days...

it's an obvious hoax..

I'm hoping you're trolling. A few points:
Why would they fake 6 moon landings? One is enough to have the desired effect.
Where did all the excess money go? A faked landing wouldn't take nearly as much as was used. A sum that large would be noticed by a number of groups.
Do you really think that the government could keep the hundreds of scientists, mechanics, and all other manner of personnel involved quiet about a cover-up? There's a very good reason most sensitive activities are restricted to those who need to know. The more people you get involved, the more chance of a leak.

There are far more plausible conspiracy theories out there, try believing one of them instead. Though most make the same mistake of assuming the government (especially intelligence agencies) are far less hamstrung than they actually are.

Taak Farst 04-20-2011 06:28 PM

NASA are also liars. jus' sayin'

Liverandbacon 04-20-2011 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taak Farst (Post 2775059)
NASA are also liars. jus' sayin'

For NASA to pull something of that scale off with so many people involved, with no leaks, and hide such huge sums of money, they'd need to be more effective than any intelligence agency in the world. And if that were the case, they wouldn't be getting their budget cut all the time.

jus' sayin'

edit: I've said my piece. I won't continue any further down this path of discussion, since mim wants things apolitical. If the sheer impracticality of 6 moon landing hoaxes doesn't convince you, I don't think anything will.

Astor 04-20-2011 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mimartin (Post 2775038)
NASA in general?

I know very little about the Shuttle program, but the work carried out through the program, and NASA's work in general has clearly gone a great way in expanding our understanding of the universe in general.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taak Farst
We never went to the moon. we have been to space certainly. but we haven't been anywhere.

/thread.

And you know this?

And the '/thread' is a bit old, btw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverandbacon
Do you really think that the government could keep the hundreds of scientists, mechanics, and all other manner of personnel involved quiet about a cover-up?

I'd go as far as saying they'd need every other major power in the world to go along with it, too, otherwise the 'hoax' would have been revealed decades ago. But that's leading into some new world order BS that we don't need, and doesn't belong here anyway.

Totenkopf 04-20-2011 07:28 PM

Hadn't been following this closely, but that explains that angry interview the TX based reporter had w/BO.

While DC, New York and Kennedy make sense, I agree that Houston should have gotten one too.

As to NASA.....seems like it's regarded as an afterthought by the pols in DC. Commercialization of space is inevitable and probably necessary.

BO and attendance issue....not a concern. Hopefully last shuttle missions will be largely free of problems.

Honestly don't recall where I was when either Shuttle disaster occurred.

@TF---what's next..........gonna tell me that Elvis and Jim Morrisson are partying w/aliens at Area 51? :xp:

@Astor--I imagine that it might be possible to keep many of them silent (govts can really ruin any person's day), they merely only would need to discredit the others via ridicule. Having said that, I agree w/you & LB that the hoax thing is BS.

Taak Farst 04-20-2011 07:35 PM

sure, you may joke. but explain to me why neil armstrong would never discuss it when asked about it? methinks because he never went.

also explain to me how we went from barely getting a rocket off the ground
to
getting a rocket to the moon and back
so damn fast?

Totenkopf 04-20-2011 07:41 PM

I can't explain your actions, why would I be able to explain his....

Do you actually know what the turn around time should be? (hint: rhetorical question). But it's a side issue either way and grounds for some other thread.

mimartin 04-20-2011 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taak Farst (Post 2775051)
We never went to the moon. we have been to space certainly. but we haven't been anywhere.

Have you ever talked to one of the people you are calling a liar? I have and you wouldn't call him a liar to his face, trust me. I certainly trust him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Totenkopf (Post 2775065)
Hadn't been following this closely, but that explains that angry interview the TX based reporter had w/BO.

Yeah.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Totenkopf (Post 2775065)
While DC, New York and Kennedy make sense, I agree that Houston should have gotten one too.

Even the California one makes sense due in large part to Ames Research Center in California and the Obiter has landed many times at Edwards Air Force Base. New York makes the least sense to me, however other than the Johnson Space Center what does Houston have to make anyone want to come here over L.A. or New York?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Totenkopf (Post 2775065)
As to NASA.....seems like it's regarded as an afterthought by the pols in DC. Commercialization of space is inevitable and probably necessary.

I don’t just see it as the politicians have lost interest. Americans don’t seem overly interested in it either. Need North Korea or Iran to get interested in space; competition is about the only thing that motivates Americans.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Totenkopf (Post 2775065)
BO and attendance issue....not a concern. Hopefully last shuttle missions will be largely free of problems.

Next to last mission. The flight scheduled for June will be the last. He was already to be in Florida, so I guess going to the launch made sense logistically and considering Mark Kelly is commanding the mission (for those that don’t know Mark Kelly is married to Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords).

Q 04-20-2011 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taak Farst (Post 2775066)
sure, you may joke. but explain to me why neil armstrong would never discuss it when asked about it? methinks because he never went.

also explain to me how we went from barely getting a rocket off the ground
to
getting a rocket to the moon and back
so damn fast?

The easiest argument against this theory is, if it were a hoax, the Soviets could've debunked it, and damn well would have. No one heard a peep out of them.

mimartin 04-20-2011 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Q (Post 2775076)
The easiest argument against this theory is, if it were a hoax, the Soviets could've debunked it, and damn well would have. No one heard a peep out of them.

They would have also continued their own quest to the moon just to say they got there first.

I'd also like someone to explain why scientists from all over the world are still studying fake moon rocks?

Q 04-20-2011 09:06 PM

It would've taken the Soviets quite a while to work all of the bugs out of the infamous N1 rocket, which never successfully got off the ground.

Tommycat 04-20-2011 09:07 PM

Or how they placed the laser reflector, right where they said they did.

I'd like to see someone duplicate the moon landing "hoax" with 1969-70's technology.

Totenkopf 04-20-2011 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mimartin (Post 2775075)
Even the California one makes sense due in large part to Ames Research Center in California and the Obiter has landed many times at Edwards Air Force Base. New York makes the least sense to me, however other than the Johnson Space Center what does Houston have to make anyone want to come here over L.A. or New York?

Was merely thinking that if I had to pick city for "touristy" reason, NY is one of most visited cities in world. However, Vandenberg AFB is also in CA. So, from a strictly space-related perspective, dropping NY for Houston shouldn't be a big deal. NYC already has enough to see w/o a shuttle.


Quote:

I donít just see it as the politicians have lost interest. Americans donít seem overly interested in it either. Need North Korea or Iran to get interested in space; competition is about the only thing that motivates Americans.
I think part of the reason is that Americans get more excited about manned space travel vs a more scientific research mission. As to the pols, the NASA budget also seems like a perenial target of opportunity....no doubt for the aforementioned reason (insufficient public attention).

Quote:

Next to last mission. The flight scheduled for June will be the last. He was already to be in Florida, so I guess going to the launch made sense logistically and considering Mark Kelly is commanding the mission (for those that donít know Mark Kelly is married to Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords).
That's why I said missions. ;) Still, the obvious question is "what next for America's space ambitions?"

mimartin 04-20-2011 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Totenkopf (Post 2775088)
That's why I said missions. ;)

My mistake. Sorry about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Totenkopf (Post 2775088)
Still, the obvious question is "what next for America's space ambitions?"

It looks like that answer will come from either Boeng, Sierra Nevada, SpaceX or Blue Origin. They are the 4 companies that received grants and now we have to wait to see what they come up with by May 2012. Then the winner will be given more money to develop their plan.

Primogen 04-21-2011 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taak Farst (Post 2775066)
sure, you may joke. but explain to me why neil armstrong would never discuss it when asked about it? methinks because he never went.

also explain to me how we went from barely getting a rocket off the ground
to
getting a rocket to the moon and back
so damn fast?

Explain to me how we went from having planes that could barely get off the ground to jets in less than 50 years.

Totenkopf 04-21-2011 01:53 AM

That's easy.....those designs were telepahthically transmitted to mere human minds from the same group of aliens we had the impudence to shoot down in NM. :nutz3:

Tommycat 04-21-2011 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mimartin (Post 2775091)
It looks like that answer will come from either Boeng, Sierra Nevada, SpaceX or Blue Origin. They are the 4 companies that received grants and now we have to wait to see what they come up with by May 2012. Then the winner will be given more money to develop their plan.

I know of at least one more company that is actively working on designs for the next generation space vehicle. More specifically, they are working on the ejection system. I've seen a little bit of what they are working on(promo shots of it working). It's the same company that designed many of the controls that were updated on the shuttle through the years. I'd say more, but I don't know how much I'm allowed to say about it. I will say this, it's kind of a somber atmosphere there as they prepare for the last mission. But from what I understand they are still a few years out on the final designs of the next generation...

And lets face it, as for the whole faked moon landing business, I say HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! We can't even keep secrets secret. And this would be the biggest secret that involved the most people and an international secret as well. AND they would have had to be able to get a laser reflector to the surface of the moon and deployed right where the pictures show it to be with 1970's technology. I mean honestly.... that's just silly to think we could fake all of that... Then there's the LRO which has sent back images of the lunar landing sites of Appolo 11, 12, 14, 15, 16, and 17

Primogen 04-21-2011 06:31 AM

Seriously, the whole Moon Landing Hoax Conspiracy Theory is completely absurd.

mimartin 04-21-2011 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommycat (Post 2775108)
I know of at least one more company that is actively working on designs for the next generation space vehicle.

I'm sure there are many, many more companies working on them. However, those are the 4 out of 22 that were awarded grants from NASA. There could be others working on it on their own or as contractors for those four companies.

Tommycat 04-21-2011 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primogen (Post 2775121)
Seriously, the whole Moon Landing Hoax Conspiracy Theory is completely absurd.

I think I remember somewhere that in order to fake the moon landing with 1970's tech it would have been easier and cheaper to actually go to the moon.

Darth333 04-21-2011 01:14 PM

Seeing this makes me feel old... and, as part of humanity (in case there were any doubts, here is the confirmation) it also makes me feel so small: these shuttles and the people aboard them, despite the great feat for humanity, we're still like little ants walking around in the Universe.

Quote:

I remember both disasters. The Challenger disaster I watched in disbelief with a bunch of friends on a TV in a junior college waiting area between classes.
I remember that too...I was in what I believe to be the US gr.7 and it was on everyone's lips...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taak Farst (Post 2775051)
We never went to the moon. we have been to space certainly. but we haven't been anywhere.

/thread.

This is a joke, right? This post is so...uh... remotely early 1970-ish. It looks like the rumours that were going on in the middle of the jungle when it happened (my parents still have the articles that were published in a local amazonian paper along with articles from elsewhere as both of them were very interested in the topic - the first Halloween costume they bought me was that of an astronaut lol: it was probably the only one in the Peruvian jungle at that time )

mimartin 04-21-2011 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth333 (Post 2775152)
It looks like the rumours that were going on in the middle of the jungle when it happened (my parents still have the articles that were published in a local amazonian paper along with articles from elsewhere as both of them were very interested in the topic - the first Halloween costume they bought me was that of an astronaut lol: it was probably the only one in the Peruvian jungle at that time )

I actually semi-remember watching the moon landing. I was like 4 and usually always stayed up until everyone in the house went to bed. The one night they wanted me to stay awake I fell asleep. My mother woke me up and I watched a grainy black and white image. Don’t really remember much about it beyond the blurry image and being pissed they woke me up for that. Now I look back I’m really glad she woke me up.

I had one of those astronaut coustumes too. Only almost everyone around here had one of them.


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