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-   -   It wasn't Vader. It was a clone. (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=207741)

General Starkiller 06-23-2011 05:03 PM

It wasn't Vader. It was a clone.
 
I don't think the Vader that Starkiller fought and captured on Kamino was Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker.

I think it will be revealed that it was actually a clone of Vader.

We saw that Starkiller dropped Vader with Force Lightning and basically rendered him useless in the beginning of the game - yet "Vader" stood up to a relentless barrage of Force Fury lightning on Kamino. Maybe the life support suit that is known to not handle electricity so well was actually more of a costume for a Vader clone.

Also...Vader captured? Really? I don't think that even in these days of Star Wars expanded universe garbage would Lucas/Lucasfilm/Lucasarts allow the big bad villain and central focus of the entire saga just be neutered and captured.

Perhaps a clone of Vader (we know that clones of Jedi can use the force) was used as another ploy by Vader to lure Starkiller again without having to risk being killed or even...captured? Vader now knows exactly where the Rebellion is going - exactly where Starkiller, Juno and Kota are going and where a supposed "hidden Rebel base" is.

Yea, I am just trying to figure out a reasonable explanation for the down right strange ending of TFUII...

Alexrd 06-23-2011 05:16 PM

What makes you think Vader did not let himself be captured? In my opinion it's a more reasonable assumption than saying Darth Vader has a clone... Besides, I think your are mixing gameplay mechanics with canon events.

TKA-001 06-23-2011 07:03 PM

Quote:

Also...Vader captured? Really? I don't think that even in these days of Star Wars expanded universe garbage would Lucas/Lucasfilm/Lucasarts allow the big bad villain and central focus of the entire saga just be neutered and captured.
Well, regardless of what it is, that is what happened. Really, a clone of Vader? Sorry, but that's a little ridiculous. :wonder:

Still, I admit that the alternate ending is for a change more compatible with the rest of the canon - the only loose end it leaves is one Starkiller clone (as opposed to up to two clones, Vader captured, and Kota alive).

Zerimar Nyliram 06-23-2011 08:07 PM

Jesus God, if I hear another moronic fanboy rumor like this, I think I'm going to blow my head off.

MajinMikeyX 06-23-2011 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKA-001 (Post 2782875)
Well, regardless of what it is, that is what happened. Really, a clone of Vader? Sorry, but that's a little ridiculous. :wonder:

Still, I admit that the alternate ending is for a change more compatible with the rest of the canon - the only loose end it leaves is one Starkiller clone (as opposed to up to two clones, Vader captured, and Kota alive).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram (Post 2782879)
Jesus God, if I hear another moronic fanboy rumor like this, I think I'm going to blow my head off.

Both of these sum up what I was going to reply with originally.

Vader most likely let himself be captured to find out the location of the Rebel's current base, or if the Dark Starkiller is canon in the lightside ending, then he's most likely cloaked and hiding on the Rogue Shadow somewhere.

Klw 06-23-2011 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram (Post 2782879)
Jesus God, if I hear another moronic fanboy rumor like this, I think I'm going to blow my head off.

Given how deserted this board is, I welcome speculative discussion about the game's plot. Also, I would call it a theory before I would call it a "fanboy rumor." I certainly haven't heard anyone else say it yet.

That being said, I don't think a clone of Vader would say "As long as she lives, I will always control you" or whatever he said after he was captured. How or why would Vader cause his clone to memorize something like that?

Also remember that Vader's arm was cut off and revealed to be bionic. Making a clone is one thing but making a clone and then replacing its limbs with cyborg parts is another.

I think that given the above quote, Juno is more likely to be a fake. She couldn't possibly have survived that fall. Maybe there was some body switching going on or a disguised robot. PROXY sure got to Juno's side fast. If you really think about it, making endless clones of Juno would be a perfect way to control Starkiller and/or the Dark Apprentice. By creating an endless stock of Junos to go through (using DNA collected from the days when she worked for Vader), Vader could ensure that "I will always control you." Just something to think about.

SmootheOperator 06-24-2011 12:44 AM

the storyline of cloning opened up way to many possibilities, most of them ridiculous. they could go the cloned Juno way, the Cloned Vader way, or hell, while we are cloning everyone, maybe Kota is a clone too.

The cloning storyline is a very slippery slope, and i think the unleashed makers have gone from the top of that particular mountain, to the bottom in very short order.

I can't think of an ending to the Unleashed trilogy that doesn't make a mockery of the Star Wars universe. for all the resources put into TFU2, put it against The Old Republic, and make it come out a year sooner, put it behind another Republic Commando game, and bring the only successful Star Wars shooter into the 360/ps3 era

Zerimar Nyliram 06-24-2011 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klw (Post 2782894)
Also, I would call it a theory before I would call it a "fanboy rumor." I certainly haven't heard anyone else say it yet.

Yeah, that's what I meant to say: theory. (Funnily enough, I almost typed "rumor" again just now, and had to backspace when I caught myself.)

And as I've made the case before on these forums, the only possibility is that the existence of the Dark Apprentice is indeed canon. So if LucasArts tosses him aside in the next game, they are gigantic morons. I'd even go on to say that it's possible for the evil clone to outshine Vader as the main villain, but that isn't likely to happen.

Klw 06-24-2011 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootheOperator (Post 2782903)
The cloning storyline is a very slippery slope, and i think the unleashed makers have gone from the top of that particular mountain, to the bottom in very short order.

I agree. It's even worse than "Wait! He didn't actually die!", which is something we may still see from this series. It would have been much better if they went with a totally new apprentice, if only for the sake of preserving the original Starkiller's noble martyrdom and nothing else.

Shem 06-24-2011 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Starkiller (Post 2782864)
I don't think the Vader that Starkiller fought and captured on Kamino was Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker.

I think it will be revealed that it was actually a clone of Vader.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:



:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


Thank you so much for writing that. I really needed a good laugh!

Zerimar Nyliram 06-25-2011 01:04 PM

Hey, Shem! Where are your brothers, Ham and Japheth? ;)

GalenMarek 06-25-2011 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klw (Post 2782894)
Juno is more likely to be a fake. She couldn't possibly have survived that fall

If Vader would have cloned Juno, than the clones should had kill them instead training droids to prove they are ready to serve

Zerimar Nyliram 06-25-2011 04:52 PM

Everyone needs to chill with their crazy cloning fetishes.

TKA-001 06-25-2011 08:21 PM

Quote:

Juno is more likely to be a fake. She couldn't possibly have survived that fall
Don't even bother mentioning being smashed through a glass/transparisteel wall. Irregardless, though, she didn't survive; she died and came back to life through the power of love. It's ridiculous, I know - I can stomach even Vader being captured by the rebellion, but that moment is the one thing about the ending that truly pissed me off - but we can see very clearly from the situation that Vader had no time to switch the real Juno's corpse with a comatose clone of Juno that possessed all of the original's memories right up to the last twenty minutes of said original's life.

On another note, I have seen people elsewhere who despise TFU 2's use of clonage yet simultaneously gush about the Thrawn Trilogy being the only good series in the entire EU despite possessing much the same thing, and I can only shrug and move on.

Klw 06-25-2011 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalenMarek (Post 2783101)
If Vader would have cloned Juno, than the clones should had kill them instead training droids to prove they are ready to serve

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKA-001 (Post 2783138)
Don't even bother mentioning being smashed through a glass/transparisteel wall. Irregardless, though, she didn't survive; she died and came back to life through the power of love. It's ridiculous, I know - I can stomach even Vader being captured by the rebellion, but that moment is the one thing about the ending that truly pissed me off - but we can see very clearly from the situation that Vader had no time to switch the real Juno's corpse with a comatose clone of Juno that possessed all of the original's memories right up to the last twenty minutes of said original's life.

Yeah, you're probably right. But what if the body he threw out the window was a training droid of Juno (presumably durable enough to survive such a beating if that is even possible) and the body that Starkiller kisses is the real one? That would address both of the above comments.

It is also worth mentioning that since Vader believes that keeping her alive is the best way to control Starkiller, he probably wouldn't just chuck the real Juno out the window with such little care - she's too valuable to him.

But now I'm getting even further away from the OP, so feel free to stop me.

Qui-Gon Glenn 07-14-2011 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKA-001 (Post 2783138)
Irregardless

Hehehehehehehe.

This thread makes as much sense as that word.

starkiller1157 07-27-2011 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Starkiller (Post 2782864)
I don't think the Vader that Starkiller fought and captured on Kamino was Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker.

I think it will be revealed that it was actually a clone of Vader....

There are many reasons why this isn't possible. For one, if Vader is cloned, he wouldn't be, nor need the suit. It would clone a perfect Anakin Skywalker and Vader wouldn't be stupid enough to do that. It could turn on him, just like Starkiller did.

And if cloning force users is that easy, Palpatine would of let the real Anakin/Vader die and just clone a new one. He had no problem using cloning for his troops, which makes me believe that cloning Jedi is impossible. I don't honestly believe Starkiller is a clone and as for the dark side ending, well...I have no theory on that...yet!

Zerimar Nyliram 07-27-2011 02:08 PM

Cloning Force users was indeed possible because Palpatine will later clone Jorus C'baoth, and then himself. It's possible, but extremely difficult (and probably expensive).

Klw 07-27-2011 02:37 PM

Palpatine did migrate his soul to the new body, though. So that's not really cloning a force sensitive. It's more like changing the tires. Would his clone bodies have been able to wield his force powers otherwise?

In any case, it's probably impossible to clone Vader if only because he is the fatherless Chosen One and has very unique genetics that cannot be replicated.

dolinator 08-22-2011 11:01 AM

right, i think vader can't be cloned..
not because he's a force user but because he is unique! he has unique DNA.. a human mother and the force!
if it's already hard to clone force-users you almost certainly can't clone a child of the force

Zerimar Nyliram 08-23-2011 02:18 AM

This reminds me of a theory someone had before the first Force Unleashed game was released. He theorized that the character that would later be revealed to be Starkiller, the one the player controls, was in fact a clone of Anakin Skywalker. This was when the only images and videos published were of him wearing a hood that concealed his face.

I don't remember all of the details, but it was a pretty convincing theory.


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