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-   -   Darth Maul pulling a Maw? (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=208592)

Lightsaberboy 10-14-2011 05:19 PM

Darth Maul pulling a Maw?
 
Apparently they're saying he survived being cut in half by Obi Wan and will be in Clone Wars

http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/10/12/st...rs-darth-maul/

I don't watch the Clone Wars so I dunno if it's good or not, but when i read that article the first thing that came to my mind was of course Maw from jedi knight XD

Blix 10-14-2011 05:24 PM

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=208591

Been talking about it here too fyi.

edlib 10-17-2011 08:05 PM

It's like GL has run out of ideas for new characters, and is just rehashing the old ones.

How else can you explain that in a galaxy of a billion billion sentient spacefaring lifeforms, EVERYTHING important happens to revolve around the same couple of dozen characters. It's like they all live in the same tiny, isolated wilderness town somewhere.

But the same thing has happened to many other epic tales... The Dune series for one. They kept cloning and resurrecting the important folks from the early books.

Bokken 10-17-2011 09:01 PM

I can understand Maul having survived being sliced in half. I can't understand him having survived being sliced in half and falling down whatever type of convenient bottomless pit that was. Even Luke barely survived it, and he had the advantages of both having his legs and being the protagonist. There's probably an explanation of some sort, but it probably carries a scent remarkably reminiscent of the orifice from which it was pulled.

Darth Avlectus 10-17-2011 09:41 PM

Selling it out. :(

Dammit. I F%*#ing hate this.

Kain 10-18-2011 12:04 AM

Doooooooooooooooooooo dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

PR-0927 10-18-2011 12:26 AM

Lucas is a ****ing moron. Savage Oppress was among the dumbest characters I have ever seen.

And now he wants to bring back Maul?

I was/am very supportive of the EU keeping Fett alive -Boba's a ****ing badass.

But bringing Maul back kind of...nullifies Obi-Wan's beasting. I don't like it.

Also, unless they fix the inconsistencies they caused with Karen Traviss's Mandolorian stuff, I couldn't give a shabla (hehe) about the "canonity" of TCW - Traviss's stuff is WAY superior, as is all of the EU.

I mean what in the flying **** was that "father, daughter, son" thing in TCW where Anakin was shown his future and then had his mind wiped?

I"m fearing they're gonna' **** it up real good in this season with Death Watch and label the Fetts as part of that - even though a tremendous amount of EU is firmly established against that (and very much in line with Traviss's stuff).

- PR-0927

Boba Rhett 10-23-2011 07:35 PM

I'm twelve and what is this?



Seriously, what? I have a bad feeling about this.

Darth Avlectus 10-26-2011 04:09 AM

We all knew it was going to hit its irrevocable trip-over at some point if they kept squeezing blood from stones for profit. I believe this is where we begin picking and choosing what we do like, keeping it, and eschewing what we don't like. Hate to admit it. Let's face the reality, it has sunk to a new low. It's over.

Alexrd 10-26-2011 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR-0927 (Post 2793440)
I was/am very supportive of the EU keeping Fett alive -Boba's a ****ing badass.

That's no excuse. What they are doing is no different from what they did to Boba, Palpatine, Ventress, etc...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Avlectus (Post 2794077)
I believe this is where we begin picking and choosing what we do like

Really? I began to do that ever since Palpatine was ressurrected. Why start only now?

PR-0927 10-26-2011 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexrd (Post 2794081)
That's no excuse. What they are doing is no different from what they did to Boba, Palpatine, Ventress, etc...


Well, it wasn't Lucas who resurrected Fett (this matters). Plus, entire series of books (especially the recent Legacy of the Force and Fate of the Jedi series) fall apart if you don't have Fett being alive. Plus part of the NJO. That's way too much dependent on his already widely-accepted escape from death to ignore that.

Palpatine's resurrection was done by a guy who wasn't surrounded by additional material - plus that was a comic series, which is generally accepted as "less canon" than the books. Also, plenty of EU novel authors have tried to "undo" the Palpatine resurrection - Zahn mentioned it as nothing more than a rumor in his books.


Quote:

Really? I began to do that ever since Palpatine was ressurrected. Why start only now?

I also ignore the Palpatine resurrection.

- PR-0927

Alexrd 10-27-2011 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR-0927 (Post 2794161)
Well, it wasn't Lucas who resurrected Fett (this matters).

Why does that matter? It's all canon, wether it comes from Lucas or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR-0927 (Post 2794161)
Plus, entire series of books (especially the recent Legacy of the Force and Fate of the Jedi series) fall apart if you don't have Fett being alive. Plus part of the NJO. That's way too much dependent on his already widely-accepted escape from death to ignore that.

All those books exist because Fett was resurrected. Are you saying that if they make many books with Darth Maul post-TPM, it will make it okay?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR-0927 (Post 2794161)
Palpatine's resurrection was done by a guy who wasn't surrounded by additional material - plus that was a comic series, which is generally accepted as "less canon" than the books. Also, plenty of EU novel authors have tried to "undo" the Palpatine resurrection - Zahn mentioned it as nothing more than a rumor in his books.

Irrelevant. It's part of the canon, same way as Boba or Maul.

Bokken 10-27-2011 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexrd (Post 2794171)
Why does that matter? It's all canon, wether it comes from Lucas or not.

THIS link will explain it a bit better; if it comes directly from Lucas, it's considered written in stone. If one book mentioned the recovery and disintegration of Maul's body, for example, it would now have to be retconned because this new development comes from the highest level.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexrd (Post 2794171)
All those books exist because Fett was resurrected. Are you saying that if they make many books with Darth Maul post-TPM, it will make it okay?

I am also not quite sure where he was going with that...then again, I'm not especially happy about anyone pulling such a worn-out move as coming back from the dead. Next thing you know, we'll find out that Jango wasn't really dead. Might not even be told how he survived.

I've been sticking my fingers in my ears and singing loudly every time Star Wars comes up with a new Deus Ex Machina or Back From the Dead plot line, but it's not such a serious business that I can't pick and choose which stories I enjoy and which I box up and donate to Goodwill. Boba...well, I can understand HOW he escaped, but I still think he made a good dead person.

Alexrd 10-27-2011 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bokken (Post 2794191)
THIS link will explain it a bit better; if it comes directly from Lucas, it's considered written in stone. If one book mentioned the recovery and disintegration of Maul's body, for example, it would now have to be retconned because this new development comes from the highest level.

My point is that it's no different from the EU bringing back Boba from the dead. Both are canon. Then again, Lucas could change it back if he wants, but it's a bit hypocritical to support Boba's return and rant over Maul's. We don't even know how he returns. I'll wait and see before I judge.

PR-0927 10-28-2011 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexrd (Post 2794200)
My point is that it's no different from the EU bringing back Boba from the dead. Both are canon. Then again, Lucas could change it back if he wants, but it's a bit hypocritical to support Boba's return and rant over Maul's. We don't even know how he returns. I'll wait and see before I judge.


My point was that it's Lucas - I don't trust any decision of his anymore, and I'm often disregarding his changes/inclusions of stuff (no matter what anyone says, Han shot first, dammit).

Additionally, cutting someone in half (severed intestines and no body waste systems/reproductive systems, woot!) and sending them down a seemingly-bottomless pit (pits which are connected to reactors, I might add) is quite different than knocking an armored mercenary with a jet pack down the throat of something that does not kill immediately. The believability matters, very, very much.

And yes, if Maul was resurrected and there were MAJOR series (not comic books or lesser-regarded novels) depending on his resurrection, I'd accept it.

I just don't want anymore "returning from the dead" people now - it's overdone. A few times was enough, and most of their non-deaths should be accepted, IMO (I really disregard Palpatine's rebirth though, since SO MANY fans and authors do, myself included). But no more, please!

Quote:

Irrelevant. It's part of the canon, same way as Boba or Maul.

But that's not true - there are varying levels of canon. Even more if you add your own personal interpretations of everything into it.

- PR-0927

Lynk Former 10-28-2011 03:49 AM

For me, the only true canon, for better or worse, is what's in the 6 movies... everything else is extra.

Darth Avlectus 10-28-2011 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexrd (Post 2794081)
That's no excuse. What they are doing is no different from what they did to Boba, Palpatine, Ventress, etc...



Really? I began to do that ever since Palpatine was ressurrected. Why start only now?

'Cuz I'm not a pure as you are and we probably don't see eye to eye. I like some of the EU. Though I have to admit Dark Empire does get hard to justify once one realizes what it does to everything else. I can take it or leave it.

I don't like Ventress being drawn out. I think she was just meant to fill what Komari Vosa couldn't by virtue of the story.

I *hate* Maul being sold out, especially since I respect Ray Park as a martial artist as well as an actor. He made that character.

I do think Boba Fett escaping the sarlacc pit monster actually was warranted, because he was supposed to be badass and didn't deserve to die so easy, nor like a bitch. I think he ought to die violently, but with a bit more dignity.

If anything I think Revan and Exile are both way overhyped as well. I suspect Drew Karpyshyn will take them down a peg in the upcoming Revan novel.

Alexrd 10-28-2011 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR-0927 (Post 2794236)
My point was that it's Lucas - I don't trust any decision of his anymore, and I'm often disregarding his changes/inclusions of stuff.

So?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR-0927 (Post 2794236)
Additionally, cutting someone in half (severed intestines and no body waste systems/reproductive systems, woot!) and sending them down a seemingly-bottomless pit (pits which are connected to reactors, I might add) is quite different than knocking an armored mercenary with a jet pack down the throat of something that does not kill immediately. The believability matters, very, very much.

Of course it does. If it is possible for someone to escape from the Sarlacc (just because it doesn't kill immediately), then what was the real danger there? It removes believability from the scene. So no, the principle is not different, praising one and despising another only shows hypocrisy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR-0927 (Post 2794236)
And yes, if Maul was resurrected and there were MAJOR series (not comic books or lesser-regarded novels) depending on his resurrection, I'd accept it.

What? I'm not following your logic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR-0927 (Post 2794236)
A few times was enough, and most of their non-deaths should be accepted,

Should?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR-0927 (Post 2794236)
But that's not true - there are varying levels of canon. Even more if you add your own personal interpretations of everything into it.

That's irrelevant for the discussion. Both are canon. Both count. The levels of canon only matter when there are contradictions between them (and it's not the case here).

Bokken 10-28-2011 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexrd (Post 2794252)
Of course it does. If it is possible for someone to escape from the Sarlacc (just because it doesn't kill immediately), then what was the real danger there? It removes believability from the scene. So no, the principle is not different, praising one and despising another only shows hypocrisy.

I don't follow. First of all, what's the point you're trying to make about "the believability of the scene?" That seems quite irrelevant. Then you jump straight from scene believability to a principle as though you've proven an irrevocable point, but I don't see a clear syllogism. If you're saying that resurrecting anyone from the dead, regardless of just how "dead" they are, is setting a dangerous precedent, then I quite agree.

Also, at the beginning you agree that believability matters quite a lot, but then appear to state that taking it into account makes one a hypocrite. It seems that you're saying that people should be either on one side or the other, and that making a personal judgment makes them a hypocrite. This conflicts with your previous statement that you've been picking and choosing which EU content you like.

I can't see why you're getting so worked up over the opinions of other people. I'll admit that none of us are exactly Mr. Spock in our thought processes (except maybe Lynk), but it's no skin off your nose.

katanamaru 10-28-2011 01:20 PM

Both Bobba and Maul should be dead. If someone dies they die. Leave it be.

Alexrd 10-28-2011 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bokken (Post 2794270)
I don't follow. First of all, what's the point you're trying to make about "the believability of the scene?" That seems quite irrelevant.

If you follow the discussion, it's not irrelevant. PR-0927 brought the argument of believability to the table. I only showed that Boba's ressurrection doesn't have it either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bokken (Post 2794270)
Then you jump straight from scene believability to a principle as though you've proven an irrevocable point, but I don't see a clear syllogism.

The principle is that both were ressurrected due to popularity. Therefore, both share the same principle. Arguing that one removes believability and ignoring the other (which does too) doesn't deny that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bokken (Post 2794270)
If you're saying that resurrecting anyone from the dead, regardless of just how "dead" they are, is setting a dangerous precedent, then I quite agree.

That too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bokken (Post 2794270)
Also, at the beginning you agree that believability matters quite a lot, but then appear to state that taking it into account makes one a hypocrite.

False. Taking into account one and excluding/ignoring the other is what I called hypocrite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bokken (Post 2794270)
It seems that you're saying that people should be either on one side or the other, and that making a personal judgment makes them a hypocrite.

No. Unless that "personal judgement" shows hipocrisy. People can accept one and not the other, but they shouldn't bring a fault they both share as an argument, only to excuse/promote one of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bokken (Post 2794270)
This conflicts with your previous statement that you've been picking and choosing which EU content you like.

No. See above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bokken (Post 2794270)
I can't see why you're getting so worked up over the opinions of other people.

I'm not. But opinions can be discussed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by katanamaru (Post 2794276)
Both Bobba and Maul should be dead. If someone dies they die. Leave it be.

I agree.

PR-0927 10-28-2011 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Avlectus (Post 2794244)
'Cuz I'm not a pure as you are and we probably don't see eye to eye. I like some of the EU. Though I have to admit Dark Empire does get hard to justify once one realizes what it does to everything else. I can take it or leave it.

I don't like Ventress being drawn out. I think she was just meant to fill what Komari Vosa couldn't by virtue of the story.

I *hate* Maul being sold out, especially since I respect Ray Park as a martial artist as well as an actor. He made that character.

I do think Boba Fett escaping the sarlacc pit monster actually was warranted, because he was supposed to be badass and didn't deserve to die so easy, nor like a bitch. I think he ought to die violently, but with a bit more dignity.

If anything I think Revan and Exile are both way overhyped as well. I suspect Drew Karpyshyn will take them down a peg in the upcoming Revan novel.


Agreed.

Sorry Alexrd - you don't seem to be understanding my points, and I disagree with basically every premise of yours. To me it matters who made the addition - if Lucas, I am likely to ignore it, because of his track record of making some remarkably dumb changes/additions.

Escaping from the Sarlacc is very believable if you're covered in body armor, have a jetpack, detonators, grapple hooks, etc. and are renown for being a total badass. The Sarlacc kills by slow digestion, using acids - anything that falls in it unlikely to get out.

Escaping Maul's death - I simply have a very hard time suspending my disbelief.

And in my previous statement, I thought the logic was VERY clear: "And yes, if Maul was resurrected and there were MAJOR series (not comic books or lesser-regarded novels) depending on his resurrection, I'd accept it."

If Maul was crucial for the story of so many legitimate series, then I'd suck up the unbelievability of his resurrection. But I'm not prone to, especially as nothing is dependent on his resurrection. And because I'd prefer to not having to do this in my head every time someone is unnecessarily resurrected.

I can pick and choose what I want to follow - that's the beauty of being a SW fan and an EU fan. I disregard much of the comic stuff and I ignore anything in TCW which contradicts what well-established EU authors have already written. No one can do anything about it.

- PR-0927

Darth Avlectus 10-29-2011 05:29 AM

I suppose a bit of experimentation is a way of feeling around what your audience responds best to.

The only reason I give half a crap about dark empire NOW is because I think for SWTOR, we will find out about origins of a little something. Namely how Sidious used Transfer Essence with cloning to prolong his life and escape death. We know all about how he used that on Bevel Lemelisk to punish him for his failures.

EDIT: By that time, both the power and the technique were quite old. /edit

There really is no other way a Sith Emperor who is a human/sith pureblood hybrid could live 1000+ years naturally. It's a fact in Fatal Alliance cloning is in use during this time period. We also know that Exar Kun learned sith alchemy and transfer essence from relics of naga sadow. In SW timeline video 1, we learn that sadow's apprentice was this sith emperor we face now.

Also, if I may speculate something rather abstract (for which I ***HOPE*** I am wrong):
Show spoiler


Just my opinion, of course. I just can't ignore it, though.

11/12/11 EDIT: YES! I found out I am WRONG about that! WAY off the mark! I'm celebrating.

Q 11-04-2011 11:01 PM

What a massive fustercluck of fail Star Wars has become.

I just have to laugh at it now. It's too depressing otherwise.


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