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-   -   ToR: Shades of Grey (alignment) (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=208694)

ChAiNz.2da 10-30-2011 07:22 AM

ToR: Shades of Grey (alignment)
 
Interesting read.

The Old Republic: Shades of Grey.
Trying to walk a neutral path in BioWare's MMO.


Quote:

Playing as a Jedi Knight in the beta for BioWare's Star Wars: The Old Republic, I had a specific goal in mind; I was going to be a neutral force in the universe. Instead of aligning myself with the typical Jedi Light side of the Force or going out of my way to be completely malevolent, I tended to bounce between both positive and negative choices at every opportunity....

...But this was to my detriment. In Coruscant I first began to see powerful new items that would greatly benefit my character, but I could use none of them.
No hard pressed opinion yet, given I haven't had a chance to form my own impression, but I could see this as something that needs addressing (luckily it is per the article). Kind of like the idea of having a neutral, works for highest bidder, Bounty Hunter alt. ;)

Not sure how much the beta testers can divulge, but I know there's a few here on the forums. Assuming you can answer... Have you run in to anything that may hint whether this is proving to a be a serious oversight, or vice versa, something they've already began to tackle (to fix)?

Lynk Former 10-30-2011 08:55 AM

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adamqd 10-30-2011 09:40 AM

I'm not in Beta, but I've read and heard a lot about Morality Gear, I personally wont be doing the Grey Jedi thing so it doesn't effect me, but I've always been a fan of Morality Gear, I mean its well known in Star Wars that Dark side artifacts can corrupt or enhance the alignment powers of the user... Exar Kun's Lightsaber, The Muur Talisman for example. Not sure if I agree on clothing though lol, Sorry you need to kill 4 more younglings before you can wear this shirt.

ChAiNz.2da 10-30-2011 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamqd (Post 2794410)
I'm not in Beta, but I've read and heard a lot about Morality Gear, I personally wont be doing the Grey Jedi thing so it doesn't effect me,

Hmm.. good point. Totally overlooked that.. hehe

It doesn't really hit upon gear for the non-jedi (specifically). I wonder if that's a factor for other class gear or if it's only the force-user gear that is affected under the "grey" shade...

adamqd 10-30-2011 10:39 AM

yes, I wondered that too after I'd posted, I dont see why a non force user would be hindered by force related items, but I know there are instances where 'Muggles' get corrupted. for balance reasons I'm sure they will be equally at risk of losing/gaining items through alignment.

ChAiNz.2da 10-30-2011 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamqd (Post 2794417)
yes, I wondered that too after I'd posted, I dont see why a non force user would be hindered by force related items, but I know there are instances where 'Muggles' get corrupted. for balance reasons I'm sure they will be equally at risk of losing/gaining items through alignment.

Yeah, I'd say you're right.

I'd bet that the whole Lightside/Darkside is ToR's alternate description for "alignment" ;)

Random thought.. would be interesting if alignment & ls/ds position where separate stats. (ie LS leaned Sith, DS leaned Republic).. using the LS/DS stat as a force/gear/ability modifier. Kinda like KotOR had the force powers classified whereas a (good) Jedi could still use Lightning/Choke etc but it just costing more... vice-versa

Probably be more of a pita on the developer side though having to take that equation in to gear drops, power balance, etc. meh who knows... hehe. Would make for some interesting character builds though :D

Ztalker 10-31-2011 07:37 AM

Hmm...strange to read this.
What's the point of having a morality system based of choice, if you don't have a choice regarding morality if you want the maximum gaming experience?

Would be terrible not to be allowed to joing a raid because you don't wear the Robes of the Killer Ewok +13 Wookie combing that require you to farm more younglings for evil rep.

I'm going for Sith Inquisitor but would hate to be forced to be a bastard in the game, just to wear some fancy clothing. I'd rather play it like a 'balanced' Sith, not a mass-murdering idiot.

Prime 10-31-2011 02:24 PM

For me, I think Star Wars really is the kind of mythical story where it really is good vs. evil, so I like the idea of the game encouraging that.

JediAthos 10-31-2011 03:41 PM

You can get items that do not have an alignment choice attached to them through crafting, quest rewards, and such. So in no way are you forced into an alignment. As a Sith you can even make light side choices and vice versa for a Jedi.

I've been testing the game for about a month and I've never felt forced into a particular alignment. I won't say any more...NDA and all that, but take that for what its worth.

Ztalker 11-03-2011 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediAthos (Post 2794499)
You can get items that do not have an alignment choice attached to them through crafting, quest rewards, and such. So in no way are you forced into an alignment. As a Sith you can even make light side choices and vice versa for a Jedi.

I've been testing the game for about a month and I've never felt forced into a particular alignment. I won't say any more...NDA and all that, but take that for what its worth.

Allright..so one could say the ´grey´ way requires more skills (like crafting) then playing it LS or DS would take. Fine by me...just as long as, like you said, you can make LS choices as Sith and don't get punished for it.

Jae Onasi 11-16-2011 12:50 PM

There are plenty of items out there that have no alignment specification. There are some very nice items that do have alignment specifications. There is right now an advantage to picking an alignment and pursuing it, but it's not going to make or break the game experience. There are plenty of LS/DS options in game to take you on whatever path you want to go. That being said, I don't know what the end-game gear is like. I'm also not planning on pursuing a neutral character--it's not 'Star Wars' to me unless you're playing good or evil. :)

Tommycat 11-28-2011 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jae Onasi (Post 2795585)
There are plenty of items out there that have no alignment specification. There are some very nice items that do have alignment specifications. There is right now an advantage to picking an alignment and pursuing it, but it's not going to make or break the game experience. There are plenty of LS/DS options in game to take you on whatever path you want to go. That being said, I don't know what the end-game gear is like. I'm also not planning on pursuing a neutral character--it's not 'Star Wars' to me unless you're playing good or evil. :)

I'm gonna have to go with my gut and say: Maybe.

It does seem more that the better items are light or dark aligned. But with mods and such you can really outfit yourself with things not light or dark aligned. It's just harder.

mimartin 11-28-2011 09:16 PM

Don't know about light or dark alignment, but I found the shorts alignment.

Be careful what you purchase, because not everything is as it appears.

Zakhodit 11-28-2011 11:37 PM

Been Beta testing all weekend.

What I can say is this: Playing "Grey" doesn't make any sense. That isn't playing "neutural" it's playing insane.

There a many options and only a very few ever carry the weight of a Light or Dark side change. The ones that do are decisions like "Should I kill this guy, or let him go."

So if you are Neutrual, you are in essence randomly killing some people, and randomly freeing others. That doesn't make any sense at all.

What is nice about the system is I'm not forced to be Good or Bad. One of my characters is a Sith Warrior, and he's tier I light. The only thing I'm closed off to are High Tier Dark side items, and that doesn't really bother me because I have all these High Tier Light side items to play with.

It's a lot of fun in a PVP envrionment because off in the distance my foe see's a dude with two blue light sabers running at him and he things he's safe, right up until that dude leaps on him and starts carving him up.

I think they have it right. You are either a good person, or you are a bad person. You can be nutural toward the republic or the empire, and you don't have to flip a coin every time you have a choice to kill someone.

Tommycat 11-29-2011 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mimartin (Post 2796547)
Don't know about light or dark alignment, but I found the shorts alignment.

Be careful what you purchase, because not everything is as it appears.

Ctrl click gives you a window to look at what you are about to purchase on your character.

mimartin 11-29-2011 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommycat (Post 2796572)
Ctrl click gives you a window to look at what you are about to purchase on your character.

See I did not know that. Most likely still would have bought them since they were better than any thing I had and after some shock, I actually started to like them, at least until I found something better.

snommism 11-29-2011 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zakhodit (Post 2796561)
Been Beta testing all weekend.

What I can say is this: Playing "Grey" doesn't make any sense. That isn't playing "neutural" it's playing insane.

There a many options and only a very few ever carry the weight of a Light or Dark side change. The ones that do are decisions like "Should I kill this guy, or let him go."

So if you are Neutrual, you are in essence randomly killing some people, and randomly freeing others. That doesn't make any sense at all.

As a smuggler, I'm pretty much doing just that.

Mess with my ship? Get shot down in cold blood.

Children need medicine? No need to pay me, I'm right on that.


I'm not really role playing or anything, just picking what feels right at the time and I've stayed pretty neutral, but a touch on the light side.

Tommycat 11-29-2011 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mimartin (Post 2796583)
See I did not know that. Most likely still would have bought them since they were better than any thing I had and after some shock, I actually started to like them, at least until I found something better.

They've changed the key combo about a dozen times for no reason(I'm sure there's a reason, but I can't fathom the reason). I've suggested they put some kind of note on the vendors to tell people how to do it.

Zakhodit 12-02-2011 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snommism (Post 2796584)
I've stayed pretty neutral, but a touch on the light side.

Over a longer period of time you are eventually going to reach teir I light.

My point was playing to ensure that you stay as close to neutral as possible was silly. The OP quoted a player who was making choices based on what points he needed to stay zero. This would mean letting those kids starve or ignoring someone touching your ship so that you stay at zero.

What you described seemed like logical actions for a "good hearted" smuggler.

Tommycat 12-02-2011 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zakhodit (Post 2796893)
Over a longer period of time you are eventually going to reach teir I light.

My point was playing to ensure that you stay as close to neutral as possible was silly. The OP quoted a player who was making choices based on what points he needed to stay zero. This would mean letting those kids starve or ignoring someone touching your ship so that you stay at zero.

What you described seemed like logical actions for a "good hearted" smuggler.

Actually it's easier to stay neutral as a smuggler. Other classes have a harder time about it. Not to mention there are no "Grey" rewards.


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