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-   -   Trick Windows (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=211127)

JCarter426 09-25-2012 06:19 PM

Trick Windows
 
This is a tricky one. It demands visual demonstration.

As you can see, we can see each other, as well as all the other characters and placeables in the area, through the window. Why, then, is that not the case here...

I know those two seem really dumb, but the Handmaiden and Exile are in the same place in both shots. The poor Handmaiden can't see Tienn and his droid or any of the placeables in the room, either. And when I put placeables near the landing pad, those aren't visible from the garage.

Now, I know it's not the VIS file. If it were that, you wouldn't be able to see anything at all. So what is it? The window's model? Missing TXI file? Some other obstruction? Any ideas?

newbiemodder 09-25-2012 07:35 PM

I've noticed that before actually from the landing. No answer for you though. Must be some limitation with the game engine.

Sithspecter 09-25-2012 08:03 PM

It may actually deal with the walkmesh, or the mysterious camera mesh that we area modelers can't seem to get. I'm going to say that's a model issue.

JCarter426 09-25-2012 08:09 PM

That had occurred to me, though I haven't had a chance to check the walkmesh due to KAurora not working on 64-bit Windows 7.

It's rooms A and G of 301NAR if anyone else wants to check.

JCarter426 09-26-2012 08:37 PM

Well, I took a look at the walkmeshes and I don't see any difference between the windows in 301 and 302.

Fallen Guardian 09-26-2012 09:15 PM

Doesn't the engine begin to cutoff resources at certain distances? Maybe the UTP's/UTC's on the landing pad when looking through Tienn's window are a great enough distance to be turned off in order to conserve resources..

JCarter426 09-26-2012 09:19 PM

I don't think it's that. I set a placeable right outside the window, but it wasn't drawn; on the other hand, the Handmaiden is quite a distance from me in 302, but I can see her fine.

Perhaps it varies from module to module, though.

GeorgNihilus 09-28-2012 10:29 AM

Interesting
 
Well now :eek: ... that's a nice catch. The Ebon Hawk mesh is quite messy I know ... but I've spawned NPCs close to it without major issues ...

so 2nd pic is not farther than the 1st u say?? distance between exile and Hmaiden??

have u tried spawning the Handmaiden not exactly in front of that light panel but closer to the corridor that leads into the "city"? :raise:

JCarter426 09-28-2012 10:38 AM

Doesn't seem to matter, as far as I can tell. The walkway is part of the same room, though. Strangely the crates on the landing pad, are not, nor are parts of the exterior wall of the swoop gallery; you can see them disappear if you pay attention. But that's a VIS issue, whereas the window issue shouldn't be, for the reasons I specified before.

And in 302 I placed her quite a distance away, basically as far as I could get, clear on the other side of the area, and she was still visible.

GeorgNihilus 09-29-2012 07:08 PM

Buggy game ...
 
these screenies are from your 64-bit Windows 7 or a 32-bit op system? I don't recall if this has happened to me in my 32-bit XP ... might be.

how about that empty space (Nar Shaddaa pit) between landing pad and window? couldn't that be affecting the vision? :raise:

JCarter426 09-29-2012 08:00 PM

64-bit Windows 7. I don't recall whether or not I ever had this problem before... I know I noticed oddities like this before, they happen no matter what, but I don't recall this specific one.

And I don't think it's the pit because I put a placeable in the pit area, right in front of the window, didn't see it.

JCarter426 10-02-2012 09:23 AM

I thought of another demonstration:

I think that should put a rest to the question of whether it's a distance issue.

Fallen Guardian 10-02-2012 09:50 AM

So can you see the other half of the speeder inside the room from that second pic's view point?

JCarter426 10-02-2012 10:15 AM

No, it's like the window cuts it in half. It absolutely will not show anything on the other side other than the area geometry.

newbiemodder 10-02-2012 10:34 AM

jc..in the very first picture of the thread...what are the rooms for the refugee sector and the room overlooking it?

JCarter426 10-02-2012 10:39 AM

Those are rooms A and S.

Fallen Guardian 10-02-2012 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCarter426 (Post 2820411)
No, it's like the window cuts it in half. It absolutely will not show anything on the other side other than the area geometry.

Huh, maybe there's a special case somewhere in the VIS or elsewhere that makes it only render the geometry and not anything else?

JCarter426 10-02-2012 11:36 AM

The VIS only handles the area geometry. As far as I can tell, the entire room you are in is rendered at any time, as well as any of the rooms listed in the VIS under that room. Everything else is dependent on whether your character is currently looking at it, which is why you get nonsense like shadows taking a few seconds to appear when it cuts to another camera angle. So characters and placeables and such behind walls won't be rendered; objects themselves don't seem to obstruct vision in this way, however, which was how Obsidian was able to make Force Sight see through doors.

Now, obviously they did something to the window in the Refugee Sector so that it would work like a window, allowing you to see objects on the other side. But for some reason they didn't do that with the window by the landing pad; it seems to function like a regular wall.

Fallen Guardian 10-02-2012 12:18 PM

Maybe you could try making the window texture transparent and see if it still does that? A long shot, I know, but anything is possible with KotOR.

newbiemodder 10-02-2012 01:43 PM

looking at the models in gmax...there are a few differences, not sure how significant they are...differences in ambient and diffuse colors regarding the window objects within the models exists..Also, in the refugee sector the front and backside of the window is contained in one room model where the in the landing pad area the the interior and exteriror of the window are in separate room models.

EDIT:

It's the window itself, the object in the model from the 301narg. I deleted the window object and ran the model back thru kaurora. I left my party on the landing platform and when I returned to the room, I could see them standing there.

JCarter426 10-02-2012 03:54 PM

Well, this is incredibly silly...
Show spoiler

It really was just a missing TXI. :ugh:

I swapped out the texture for a completely invisible one as Fallen Guardian suggested, and of course that made everything visible again. However, anything less than completely invisible would bring the problem back; this led me to conclude it must be a TXI issue, and so here we are.

Now, I noticed that source of this window texture is from Dantooine. I want to make sure changing it doesn't adversely affect anything anywhere else... but I don't remember any windows on Dantooine. Anybody know where it's from?

Rtas Vadum 10-02-2012 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCarter426 (Post 2820432)
Well, this is incredibly silly...
Show spoiler

It really was just a missing TXI. :ugh:

I swapped out the texture for a completely invisible one as Fallen Guardian suggested, and of course that made everything visible again. However, anything less than completely invisible would bring the problem back; this led me to conclude it must be a TXI issue, and so here we are.

Now, I noticed that source of this window texture is from Dantooine. I want to make sure changing it doesn't adversely affect anything anywhere else... but I don't remember any windows on Dantooine. Anybody know where it's from?

I don't remember those two textures being used for Dantooine(DAN_Wn01, DAN_Wn02), but I could be wrong about that. I found out the same thing myself, although I didn't add a txi file. So in this image, it is using both the Alpha channel and effect as in the normal game:

Show spoiler


I haven't yet checked if you can see through this window yet, though obviously the Hawk is visible(though that might not mean much, since it is the same in your images in the first post).

newbiemodder 10-02-2012 05:33 PM

What is the new txi entry...I thought the Dan texture was Blending Additive or something like at.

Glad to hear you found a solution !!

JCarter426 10-02-2012 05:38 PM

Yes, it's:
Code:

blending additive
The landing pad window (DAN_Wn02) lacks it, but the Refugee Quad window (PER_Wn01) has it by default.

Sith Holocron 10-02-2012 05:49 PM

I'm glad you found the answer. Perhaps you could offer that TXI file to everyone?

JCarter426 10-03-2012 04:22 PM

1 Attachment(s)
It's just what I posted above, but all right, here you go. You have to rename it to TXI though... LF only accepts certain extensions.

Hassat Hunter 10-03-2012 06:56 PM

Shame you noticed and figured this out post-1.8.1.
If there ever would be a 1.8.2 (very unlikely).

For now, may I suggest uploading it to deadlystream?

GeorgNihilus 10-03-2012 07:38 PM

Oh my ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JCarter426 (Post 2820487)
It's just what I posted above, but all right, here you go. You have to rename it to TXI though... LF only accepts certain extensions.

a missing "not existing" txi?? :lol:

congrats on the amazing "discover" & thanks for sharing the "txt" file :golfclap:

P.S. we'll see if this doesn't affect other windows, do we? it won't?

JCarter426 10-03-2012 07:49 PM

I'm not sure if it'll affect anything else... I suppose I could figure out but I'm sort of busy, so I'll just leave it to you all to let me know if I screwed anything up. :xp:

Even if I did, I could just hex edit it to use a different texture.

GeorgNihilus 10-04-2012 08:00 PM

Ok ...
 
Renaming the txt won't do it (still being a txt) ... had to edit another txi and save for a txi extension actually ... :raise:

thanks for the fix again :sonar1

JCarter426 10-04-2012 08:07 PM

You have to rename the TXT to TXI, which you can only do if you have file extensions shown.

milestails 10-04-2012 09:49 PM

Essential fix

GeorgNihilus 10-06-2012 08:27 PM

Alright then ...
 
Take a look at my new ... Nar Shaddaa windows ... ;)

Show spoiler


Show spoiler

shinny, aren't they?? :golfclap:


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