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NeJJa 05-31-2001 09:13 PM

what does everyone think?
about the guns in JK2? i know lots of you are here for force powers and the new cool saber stuff, which is very exciting, but i would still like to see what everyone thinks about adding, keeping, or modifying the guns. personally, i have spent countless hours with a concussion rifle, and the thought of it not being in the new JK makes me break into nostalgic tears. :cool:

ZeroXcape 06-01-2001 09:14 PM

I always play JK with a saber-only approach, even on levels like CO. Usually the only time I have to whip out a gun is when I'm sick of someone over using their concussion rifle. (Needless to say, saber's don't block em too well.)

Kwup 06-01-2001 09:24 PM

C Rifle > ALL!

ssyoda 06-01-2001 09:26 PM

I loved the guns in JK, but I always found it a little annoying that you had to lead enemies because of the nature of blaster fire.

What I'd like to see in JK2 is some instant hit weapons, like a sniper rifle or a rail gun type of deal. But of course, it would have to stick with the SW theme.

Sarge 06-01-2001 09:43 PM

Saber all the way!!!

ZeroXcape 06-01-2001 11:06 PM

I'm all about the mines. What don't you like about them? They too sneaky? :)

I always thought they weren't powerful enough.

[ June 01, 2001: Message edited by: ZeroXcape ]

ReAcToR 06-01-2001 11:14 PM

I would like to see all of the weapons from Jedi Knight, make a comeback in Jedi Knight II. The weapons would of course beed to be more balanced, but with a modern day netcode(Q3/UT/EF/T2) that isn't all that difficult. One of the main reasons that Jedi Knight's weapons weren't all that balanced were because of the netcode.

I feel that it would be a mistake to not inhibit explosive weapons such as Mines(with 2 modes as in MotS) and Thermal Detonators. I would also like to see an option to shoot mines with a blaster or another weapon to make them explode, instead of just having to use explosive weapons to do so.

I'm hoping that this game won't revolve around Saber combat like we seem to be seeing with Obi Wan. The Star Wars universe is a huge one, and the majority of it's characters don't use a Lightsaber. Let's also not forget that alot of us have other characters who are our favorites, such as Han Solo or Chewbacca.

I don't want some silly Jedi blocking everything that I shoot at him/her. I don't think that is balance. If they want to be able to evade getting shot by spread damage, they should have to master movement strategies like we see in Unreal Tournament with the flips and things(hitting left or right 2 times quickly). Good movement will make the Lightsaber balance out nicely with the guns.

One thing that I did love in Jedi Knight, was the fast-paced/heart-pounding action that happened when someone with a Concussion Rifle and someone with a Lightsaber went head to head at close range. The person with the Concussion Rifle usually won if they had equal skill, but there's nothing scarier than having a Saberist under your feet trying to mow you down, while you're trying to waste him without splash-damaging yourself to death. Modern netcodes will make such a battle even more hardcore. I'm looking forward to something like this.

Kwup 06-01-2001 11:26 PM

A list of stuff they HAVE to remove and/or add:
  • Make the C Rifle better (AKA primary mode needs a function)
  • Kill Chain Lightning, Destruction, Deadly Sight, Protection, Far-Sight, Decoy, Jump, Blind, and Heal
  • ADD Recover(Sorta like heal, but it gradually goes up 20% every use), Solar Flare(basically like blind, but make a floating ball/sun that blinds you when you look at it, so when you turn away you can see, it would be helpful for running from a battle), Levitate(not fly, levitate. AKA force jump but when you use it it lasts for 20 seconds and reduces gravity by 1/2, so every time you jump you will go 2x higher), Regular Lightning(from JK, not MotS version), and also make absorb more like protection, so you can just combine the two. ;)

[ June 01, 2001: Message edited by: Kwup ]

Caradoc 06-02-2001 12:17 AM

My vote is to bring back the granade launcher and welder from DF. The granade launcher would have balanced the conc. Well thats what I think anyway. Lobing granades over the catwalk in Oasis would have had a big fun facter =) We had an Oasis mod that gave the TD's a 4fold enhancement and man it was fun!

Kwup 06-02-2001 12:22 AM

Mines = the damnation of ALL FPS games. This is a first person shooter, not a first person -drop a hunk of metal on the floor and hide in the corner with your pants down doing the rub-a-dub while watching people who want to play the game point and laugh at your **** cakes you dropped on your way to grandma's house kinda game. :D

NeJJa 06-02-2001 12:27 AM

The mines were cool in my opinion. But, i would like to see them set in the proximity mode only last for 10-20 seconds. Alternate fire should be remotely detonated.
I would also like to see something origional with the repeater. The cliche today for machine guns is a fast firing fairly accurate, or a faster firing less accurate. Personally, i wouldnt mind seeing something along the lines of the same 3-shot secondary fire, but with them 3 shots weaving in and out of each other, so that mode is better for medium ranged assaults.

Finally, a balancer for the concussion rifle would have to be an explosive weapon, with more power, splash, and momentum but a slower firing rate and projectile velocity.

TheJackal_jk2 06-02-2001 12:27 AM

The guns in DF2: JK weren't very well balanced. However I'm pretty sure the team at Raven will fix that. They are the one responsible to the great FPS games like StarTrek Voyager: Elite Forces and that other "famous gore infested game". :eek: I mean! There has to be a limit in game violence! It's worst then seeing Keano Reeves playing a Irish-Inuit that has only one eye, one leg and doesn't speak anything but dog.

Kwup 06-02-2001 12:29 AM

If you wanna see balanced guns look at Tribes 2, and tell me one gun there that is pointless. I bet you can't, because they all rock :cool:

NeJJa 06-02-2001 12:44 AM

i dont think balancing weapons is much of a priority. why should all weapons be equal? sure, make them to where no matter what (minus the blaster) a skilled player could take a newbie down with any wep vs any other, i guess thats ok. but, i like the concept of weak first 3 medium second 3 and strong last 3. although, now that i think about it, im not going to be using anything but the C-Rifle, so i dont care. :D

Kwup 06-02-2001 12:49 AM


Balanced does NOT mean they are the same dmg/rate of fire/availability. Balanced means they have a use. Obviously I would take a Spinfusor over a Blaster in Tribes 2 anyday, but sometimes you have no ammo/you gotta get around the corner(blaster reflects off of stuff) or something else. Same goes with E.L.F. You can't kill anyone with it, but you can immobilize them for a teammate etc...

ReAcToR 06-02-2001 01:04 AM

I think that mines are one of the greatest things about JK. I can't see any reason to not have them in JK2. Mines teach awareness. If you are a very aware FPS player, mines are nothing to fear. Besides, where would we be without MJing, TeamMJing and stacking 30 mines on top of eachother for some mega-explosions. Mines are one of the only weapons that enabled you to kill Conc-holders in Oasis very easily(if you didn't have a Conc). Mines are very good for balance.

We need something with splash damage too. Mainly because games that don't have Rocket-jumping, simply aren't games at all. RJing, MJing and CJing in JK aloud you to take the game to levels that I don't think LEC ever imagined, especially in NF CTF.

Kwup 06-02-2001 01:09 AM

Let this be a lesson. Mines are for the weak. C Rifles are for the strong. Learn It, Live It, Love It.

[ June 01, 2001: Message edited by: Kwup ]

DrIfTeR 06-02-2001 01:11 AM

Kwup this is not Tribes 2 ,I play it and its great but I want to keep all weapons from the old jk and mots except seekers,otherwise game looks fine to me.Ever play a person with just mines vs you if you played a skilled person thye would whoop ya up with the mines is that why you dont want them?

[ June 01, 2001: Message edited by: DrIfTeR ]

Kwup 06-02-2001 01:13 AM

pass the ritalin

Wilhuf 06-02-2001 03:23 AM

It's already confirmed that there will be

1. Lightsaber
2. Bryar blaster pistol
3. Blaster rifle
4. Wookie Bowcaster
5. Thermal detonators
6. Stun baton
(thanks StormHammer)

I say we should have the Concussion Rifle in Jedi Outcast. And the other 'lower end' weapons like the bowcaster and blaster rifle should be beefed up, doing more damage.

Weapons should be powerful enough that an inexperienced player might luck out and hit a more experienced player once in awhile.

StormHammer 06-02-2001 03:09 PM

I think there are two separate issues here where weapons are concerned. You have weapons that are great for the SP game, and weapons that are great for the MP game - but often these do not coincide. To balance the weapons in MP, you would also affect SP, and possibly make SP less balanced, and vice versa.

I think what they need to think about is possibly limiting the types of weapons available for SP and MP, and use some kind of modifier to balance the weapons better for MP mode.

If you take Unreal Tournament as an example - they took some of the Unreal weapons, and balanced them for Multiplayer use! The Unreal weapons worked perfectly well in Single player - but were not suitable for multiplayer.

I am not saying that all weapons are affected in this manner, but some probably are. It would therefore make sense to me to look at SP and MP as two different games (which they essentially are), and balance one set of weapons for SP, and another set for MP. That would probably alleviate many of the problems.

I've not really played MP (bad net connection), but in SP I didn't really use the conc rifle or rail detonator that much. I think they limited the ammo for the rail detonator, which was okay by me. I only remember using it to destroy the AT-STs anyway.

And that raises another point. I think ammo should continue to be limited for the more powerful weapons, so that no-one can just blast through a level (SP or MP) by just using one weapon (except for maybe the lightsaber).

BTW, thanks Wilhuf. ;)

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