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-   -   Why OUTCAST?? IDEAS please (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=23646)

CaptainRAVE 06-02-2001 01:45 PM

Why OUTCAST?? IDEAS please
 
Uh...why Jedi Outcast and not Dark Forces 3....now i know this had been in many topics but noone has really touched the surface. If you've played the game OUTCAST youd find that it was pretty good. And as we know outcast means different - what has Kyle been banquished from society maybe.....or maybe he has to stop this evil jedi to become a hero again.........ANY SUGGESTIONS????????

wardz 06-02-2001 01:57 PM

its because its a self imposed exile

matt-- 06-02-2001 03:48 PM

A restriction of contact to the outside world. Recluse. Similar to Obi-Wan during the beginning of ANH.

StormHammer 06-02-2001 05:05 PM

The only problem I can see with the name is that some people might just shorten it to Outcast, and it will then become confused with the other game of that name.

Other than that, the name pretty much sums up Kyle's position, as the others said.

Why not Dark Forces 3? Well, I don't blame them if they want to distance themselves from the DF tag. I mean, we've had Dark Troopers, Dark Jedi...what else can be Dark? With the Jedi Knight tag, they could potentially tell any story, without worrying about a bunch of Dark Forces...

That's just IMO...

[ June 02, 2001: Message edited by: StormHammer ]

matt-- 06-02-2001 05:37 PM

Agreed. The game could very well be confused with Outcast.

Jedi_Killer 06-02-2001 07:32 PM

Well the game Outcast didn't sell all that well--I doubt that would be too much of a problem.

They were already moving away from it by Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith. Also, that expansion pack might be some of the cause for confusion? It was definitly a part of the DF series. So that would mean we should be up to DF 3.5 or 4 now. Rather than deal with that kind of confusion, just give the name from the more successful part of the series.

As for the Outcast part--I'm guessing this also relates to the situation that emerged with MotS. Kyle is clearly outside the normal stories in the extended universe. However, they are always trying to write him in and make things fit (afterall, the X-wing games are pretty much responsible for the highly popular X-Wing series of books) so there needs to be a reason Kyle isn't a part of the normal group of Jedi. Maybe he's gone back to his Bounty Hunter roots or he's on some sort of secret mission to find the remants of Empire. Some warlord or something who is getting a little out of control. By completing the task Kyle would have a chance to come back into the main fold and lose his outcast status.

Ki-Adi-Mundi 06-02-2001 08:10 PM

Kyle gave up his short lived life as a Jedi. And he was a mercanery Jedi at that. So he never had any real training. Like wardz said, self imposed exile. So he's like an outcast. A Jedi Outcast. Hence the name.

StormHammer 06-02-2001 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jedi_Killer:
<STRONG>Well the game Outcast didn't sell all that well--I doubt that would be too much of a problem.</STRONG>
Well, I bought a copy. ;) I'm looking forward to Outcast 2, as well. And looking at it realistically, there are very few PC games that have sold well, ie, greater than 20,000 units. You'd be surprised how many games with good reviews don't sell very well. Undying is a prime example (I haven't got it yet, but I intend to...). No matter how well it sold - you knew what I was referring to...therefore the game itself is widely known. Therefore it could lead to some confusion. (damn, I'm beginning to sound like a Vulcan! :eek: )

Quote:

<STRONG>They were already moving away from it by Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith. Also, that expansion pack might be some of the cause for confusion? It was definitly a part of the DF series. So that would mean we should be up to DF 3.5 or 4 now. Rather than deal with that kind of confusion, just give the name from the more successful part of the series.</STRONG>
Yeah, I sort of agree. MotS was a lot more than just an expansion pack, but a bit less than a full-blown sequel.

Quote:

<STRONG>(afterall, the X-wing games are pretty much responsible for the highly popular X-Wing series of books)</STRONG>
Your assumption is not strictly true. I've never played any of the X-wing games, but I've got all of the X-Wing novels - damned good read they were, too. I agree that players of the games probably bought the novels, but so did a lot of other people. ;)

ed_silvergun 06-02-2001 08:31 PM

Mostly what others have already said:
  • Outcast because of Kyle's self-imposed exile and abstention from the force following his little experience in MotS
  • Jedi Knight II because MotS was effectively DF III, being a stand-alone game (requiring JK for validation but with separate engine code enabling it to exist on your hard drive without JK) and of a comparable (if not greater) length to the original DF
  • Jedi Knight II also for marketing reasons: the JK name is more widely known in PC gaming circles than DF, so it is likely to grab more peoples' attention
  • Jedi Knight II because in this game Kyle is a Jedi Knight as he was in JK (he was not in the original DF
  • Similarly, not DF III because of the lack in this game of the "Dark Forces" (ie. dark troopers) which gave DF its name

That's about as many reasons as I can think up... for now! :D

Ki-Adi-Mundi 06-02-2001 08:32 PM

I never did like the X-Wing novels that much. I skipped all of them after reading two of them.

I've never heard of Undying, or Outcast and Outcast 2.

StormHammer 06-02-2001 08:35 PM

Ki-Adi-Mundi...

You haven't been vacationing on Tatooine by any chance? :D j/k

Ki-Adi-Mundi 06-02-2001 08:40 PM

I would never go to that dreadfully hot place in a million years.

I've been on Hoth as a matter of fact. :D

StormHammer 06-02-2001 08:50 PM

:D Cool planet! :D

digl 06-02-2001 11:39 PM

LOL :D

The name is just a marketing thing

And talking about Dark Troopers, Itd be cool to play against them again.Somewhere I read that some DTs survived at Coruscant, Id love seing how a Phase 1 DT would look with those graphics

Jedi_Killer 06-03-2001 12:41 AM

Yeah I know all about PC sales. And I'm not exactly your average consumer. I was at E3 a couple weeks ago and I test games professionally. So my knowing about a particular game doesn't mean it's well known.

I forget where I read it, but Stackpole (the author of the origional X-Wing novels) said he got his inspiration for them from the games. Actually, it might have been something as simple as the forward if they have one. And many of the training missions and stuff they go through are missions from the game.

StormHammer 06-03-2001 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jedi_Killer:
<STRONG>Yeah I know all about PC sales. And I'm not exactly your average consumer. I was at E3 a couple weeks ago and I test games professionally. So my knowing about a particular game doesn't mean it's well known.</STRONG>
True, but in a nutshell, neither of us knows for sure exactly how many people know about the Outcast game, or how many (if any) might confuse Jedi Outcast with that game. I just tend to err on the side of caution, but the whole issue is a matter of conjecture.

Quote:

<STRONG>I forget where I read it, but Stackpole (the author of the origional X-Wing novels) said he got his inspiration for them from the games. Actually, it might have been something as simple as the forward if they have one. And many of the training missions and stuff they go through are missions from the game.</STRONG>
Thank you for clarifying your point - I obviously misinterpreted that line from your former post. ;)

Thrawn 06-03-2001 02:53 AM

Stackpole had to play the origional X-wing to get the inspiration for the books. Those training missions are not easy either!

CaptainRAVE 06-03-2001 03:06 PM

I hope that their not calling it DF3 cause their leaving that open for a sequel.....we can only hope!! :D

Syndrix 06-03-2001 03:34 PM

Hey Rave, I doubt that they are leaving the door open for a DF3, Even back with JK, the dark forces 2 was really only a sub title tacked onto the main title (Jedi Knight) so we, the consuming public, would know it was a sequel to the original DF. This is highlighted in MoTS where they kept Jedi Knight but got rid of the DF bit.
And StormHammer, I highly recommend Undying, after I got it I played it so much I beat it in less than a week, its preety cool!


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