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SlowbieOne 06-29-2001 01:41 AM

Acrobatics in Outcast?
I hope they include acrobatics such as flips or rolls. It would eliminate the need for the JUMPING FOOLS in JK1. They could do it in the way u dodge in Unreal Tournament, by double tapping a direction. It would also add LOTS of strategy to the game. Any thoughts?

DeathBoLT 06-29-2001 01:54 AM

double taping for dodges takes too much time..

The Wanderer 06-29-2001 01:58 AM

yeah, but double tapping's easy enough to remember and not too terribly complicated. maybe if you double tap while attacking with the lightsaber you can do some type of acrobatic attack?

SlowbieOne 06-29-2001 02:00 AM

Too much time? Hmm, u must have really slow hands cause it takes me less than 1/2 a second. Besides im saying for the good players. It could be optional. U dont HAVE to do it. Only if u have quick hands, haha.

SlowbieOne 06-29-2001 02:02 AM

I was just about to say that Wanderer. It could possibly add a whole slew of combo attacks. They are putting it in Obi-Wan, so i have faith they will put it in JKO.

matt-- 06-29-2001 02:37 AM

I can't dodge in UT for some reason, and I tap fast as lighting.

Jimi-Wan 06-29-2001 04:36 AM

acrobatics, and attacking during acrobatics, is one of the sweetest ideas. way to go slowbie & wanderer, awesome.

DeathBoLT 06-29-2001 05:18 AM

if u were good, u'd know 1/2 a second sometimes isn't fast enough

SlowbieOne 06-29-2001 05:54 AM

Like I said, it should be optional. And you would be suprised what i can do in 1/2 a second. What kind of control would you suggest eVe? Or are you not in favor of the idea?

TheJackal_jk2 06-29-2001 02:01 PM

The doging part of UT is simple, but very usefull. And like SlowbieOne you do not have to use it. In UT there is the option of double tap doging.

Chewie_Rips 06-29-2001 04:46 PM

Great point with this subject. This concept has got to be included, some how some way! I was just having this conversation with someone, and it would be the biggest way to improve Jedi Knight, when making Outcast. Although double tapping may be an option, I think a designated button for "acrobatics" wold be the best best. However, it would have use in conjunction with another movement. Example( a= acrobatics key)
a+attack= speacial attack
a+jump= flip( back-flips, side flips, like Laura Croft, diagnol flips....yummy!)
a+straff= side roll
a+any direction= performs a roll in that direction. Alhough, my suggetions may not the best soultion, any way this could be accomplished would kick serious as*!!!

Let's hope the right people hear this! :D

DeathBoLT 06-29-2001 05:32 PM

nah im for it.. don't mind me

wardz 06-29-2001 05:51 PM

Did quake 3 have rolls?

I don't think we need some mega complicated moves, just something to ger rid of the "jumping fools" as someone eloquently put it..


Ice Man 06-29-2001 05:57 PM

I don't know if Q3 had rolls, but JKII should. Double tapping the straf key should cause the player to do a dive-roll in that direction. That would be pretty cool.

WD_ToRMeNt 06-29-2001 06:03 PM

If you had played quake 3, then you would know that many of the characters do flips and such when they jump. The observer sees the other flipping, but to the person jumping he seems to remaim upright. This is prolly the way JK2 will be. Its a good idea, if you really flipped and your view changed with it, that would be seriously dizzying.

[ June 29, 2001: Message edited by: -WD- ToRMeNt ]

WD_ToRMeNt 06-29-2001 06:21 PM

What's with this "jumping fools" nonsense? The more you move in a game, the harder you are to hit. You sound like the type to stand there looking stupid, firing at me with a bryer while I elitely force jump over you, grip you while I pass over you, and blast you twice with my conc before you even know where I landed. You are also probably the type that runs at me swinging saber in NF oasis while I outran you with strafe run + jump. All the while I would be hitting you in the face with sticky rails cause I was bored with you.

[ June 29, 2001: Message edited by: -WD- ToRMeNt ]

SlowbieOne 06-29-2001 06:23 PM

I'd have to say double tapping a direction would be the only way. Think about it. Adding an acrobat button? You only have 10 fingers! I'm sure it will be like JK1 where you have a bunch of keys set to the force powers etc... Having an acrobat button, would just get in the way.

wardz 06-29-2001 06:28 PM

I think it was meant to be a lighthearted comment, you shouldn't take things so seriously,

Why are you on such a high horse anyway? "while I elitely force jump over you"


WD_ToRMeNt 06-29-2001 06:30 PM

The day you can win a game 24 - 1 - 0 - (-1) against "average" players is the day you would understand.

[ June 29, 2001: Message edited by: -WD- ToRMeNt ]

Chewie_Rips 06-29-2001 06:49 PM

We'll I think that the acrobatics should be seen by you as well, but only in 3rd person view, wich most all people use for saber dules. Let's use Tomb Raider as an example, only because she had the ability to flip from side to side, roll in all directions, and you were able to see it happen. I would like to see these types of abilities for JKO Lets face it, Jedi are, and should be, way more acrobatic then a Laura Croft.( sorry to use her as the example) Unforuntaley, jumping will be an option, and cutting out newbs that play in mp games that seem to think jumping is the best thing to happen in a video game, will never die. Its like they never let ther finger off the jump button, which drives most players nuts, what to do???

I would aslo like to see the ability to grap ledges, etc, incorporated into the game? Giving you the ability to act own a scene like Obi-won and Maul in EP1....maybe we are asking too

wardz 06-29-2001 06:57 PM

Chewie, feel free to use Lara Croft all you want!

WD, obviously you are a good player, but not everyone is that bothered. The majority of people are casual gamers...


Chewie_Rips 06-29-2001 07:23 PM

Oh, by the way, I completely agree with WA-Torment, and the jumping aspect, don't let my words miss-lead you..speaking from a primarily NF, FF Saber point of view, there is a right time to jump and right time not too! I was just commenting on Exessive jumping, etc. And although jumping is used best for defense and positioning, straffing is one area were most newb-average players fail to crasp...most seasoned players can identify the skill level of a player within about 3 seconds of game...

Chewie_Rips 06-29-2001 07:49 PM

Thanks wardz...I'll use her as much as she lets me... :eek: Also, to back up wardz, as I'm sure he agrees with jumping being important at the right shouldn't be much of a concern, cause we all know, if you don't like a game....leave!

Also, If you incorprate a button for acrobatics, as opposed to double tapping, you could use mouse 3, or 4. I don't use mouse 3 for anything with JK so it would be easily accessed when needed, assumming you play with the mouse and keyboard. Simply put, the could incorporate both options during set-up....this way everyone wins!!!!!!

CaptainRAVE 06-29-2001 08:21 PM

Acrobatics....i havnt thought much on this, thinking Raven will just definatly include it anyway.

SlowbieOne 06-29-2001 09:23 PM

He WD-Torment, im not a newb, and would probably thrash u in JK. But anyway, the saber duels in JK were wild swing fights where u HAVE to jump around to avoid being hit. That is just so unrealistic . You shoud be able to block. In reality and in the Star Wars movies, they don't jump around like morans. They stand their ground. I think the duels should be about patience and waiting for the proper moment to strike. And i think flips and somersaults could add great depth to this.

wardz 06-29-2001 09:33 PM

all in moderation


WD_ToRMeNt 06-29-2001 10:33 PM

"Reality" of the star wars movies? I also like the games to have things in common with the movies, yet it's a GAME. If you want to pretend you live in the SWs world, then go do some RPGs or whatever. JK is placed in the SW world, but it's a game and things had to be changed because you can only tranlsate the movie into a game so well. It was also made with a fun facter and replayablity in mind.

And if you want to fight, then look me up as WD_ToRMeNt on the zone. I'll own you in FF sabs, and most likely in FF/NF guns as well. Let me guess, you are on a 56gay slodem and you want to fight me NF gaybers right? Doesn't matter, I'll elite you as long as you don't haxx :p

BTW it's really stupid for us to be arguing like this since neither one of us has any control of the JK2 development.

[ June 29, 2001: Message edited by: -WD- ToRMeNt ]

matt-- 06-29-2001 10:37 PM

Torment...I know something that's gay. I'll even give you a hint. It's not a modem and it's not a lightsaber.

And it's not me either.

[ June 29, 2001: Message edited by: matt-windu ]

WD_ToRMeNt 06-29-2001 11:36 PM

Please Matt, go have your coming out party somewhere else. Now I'll be the first to say that being good at a computer game doesn't mean much past a certain point. However you know where to find me if you think you have the balls.

WD_ToRMeNt 06-29-2001 11:51 PM

Hey Chewie_Ripe...

Hey that's cool then. Yes some players jump around with little idea of what they are doing. In FF, the expert players always "link" trick force jumps and are almost impossible for most zoners to hit.

BTW, My offer to teach FF to anyone who asks is still open. Even whey I flame, I try and help some one. A person with potential would read one of my earlier posts and say "force jump over them while griping, then blast them with conc!? Hey that's a great idea I think I'll try it!

(HINT: In order to do that, you have to do a small force jump. You have to hold the button for a about a second. That way you don't take damage and lose the grip when you land. Always hold grip BEFORE you see them and let it go the moment you see red ;-)

[ June 29, 2001: Message edited by: -WD- ToRMeNt ]

The Wanderer 06-29-2001 11:53 PM

yeah, a 24 - 1 - 0 - (-1) game sounds Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeal fun. Maybe I'm completely misreading your attitude, but I hate morons with serious ego problems. I hate to break it to you, but bragging about your skill to sit on your @$$ and push buttons better than other people can push buttons in a five year old computer game is kind of pathetic.

People want to play JK2 to have a "realistic" saber fight. not to watch someone constantly jump 10 feet in the air. That's not only frustrating, it's just not how most people want to play JK. Basically, it's NOT fun, which defeats the whole pourpose of a game.

this is how I think jumping should work in JK... You shouldn't be able to jump so high unless you're using the force. pressing the jump button should only make you jump about 2 1/2 feet high, not even tall enough to jump over some one. I think if you want to jump higher than that, or use an acrobatic move it should eat up your force points, more so than in JK.

if you could only Force jump a handfull of times before your force points run out, this would make it impossible for someone to just jump continuously non-stop. Also, you could still do acrobatics in JK2 without having saber battles turn into a lot of chaotic mess of jumping around. Acrobatics would need to be used more wisely.

As far as wether or not acrobatics should be used via double tap, or have a seperate acrobatics button, I go with the "I only have 10 fingers" theory personally. However I see no reason you shouldn't have an option to do things either way in the game.

[ June 29, 2001: Message edited by: The Wanderer ]

WD_ToRMeNt 06-30-2001 12:11 AM

When I was learning, I was happy to play with the greats; Rage, ApOc, Breeze, Reiko, and many others. Even if I lost 15- (-2) that would be fine because I would always learn something. I would have never gotten as good as I am with any other mindset. Are you the type to whine and complain about getting owned? Or are you one who can take it like a man and grow?

About what you said about "hitting buttons on a 5 year old game"... *YAWNS* I've already stated that im fully aware that JK has no bearing on the real world. Or does it? You seem to be a bit sore over something you claim is meaningless.

[ June 29, 2001: Message edited by: -WD- ToRMeNt ]

WD_ToRMeNt 06-30-2001 12:17 AM

Oh yes, there is much difficulty in programming JK2 to be just as it is in the movies. Just as in JK, people will do things to WIN without caring about the movies. JK2 will most likely attract many hardcore gamers that play to win. Will you whine and complain as you do now because they don't want to stand around blocking sab hits, when they do something unexpected to kill you and to win?

Just like JK, JK2 will be a GAME and NOT a movie. In a game some one will win, and some one will lose. It's your choice.

[ June 29, 2001: Message edited by: -WD- ToRMeNt ]

SlowbieOne 06-30-2001 12:20 AM

WD-Torment, we are not arguing, we are debating. These are forums in which we express our opinions. I'll be looking for you on the zone, I'd like to take you up on your challenge, haha. P.S. My zone name is SlowbieOne. If ya ever see me, ZM me.

The Wanderer 06-30-2001 12:29 AM

No, I'm merely discussing how the rules could be changed so that the game is actually FUN to play. that's hardly bitching and whining. Maybe it's hard for you to understand, but the idea of analy jumping around using the gun with the biggest splash damage has no appeal to me. I don't play a game to "do anything I can to win" Intelligent people with better things to do will simply stop playing and find an activity that's more fufilling, which might explain how you're "owning" people.

matt-- 06-30-2001 12:36 AM

Torment...I see why you choose that name. After all your constant flaming and arguing, I doubt that anyone at these forums values your opinion or cares about it. Frankly, I don't care if you can beat me in JK, what does that mean to anyone in the real world? It just means that you've spent more time sitting on your undoubtably fatass playing on your computer, maybe even typing with one hand at times. Do us all a favor...go get a life. Maybe then you won't be so damn grumpy. I hope that bug up your ass dies soon, you horse ****-eating galactic jackass.

The Wanderer 06-30-2001 12:39 AM

Oh, and as far as there being "much difficulty programing Jk2 to be just like it is in the movies" would you care to actually comment on my simple ideas on how to do that and make the game more fun to play, or are you just going to whine because you're afraid someone's going to take away your method for scoring cheap unfufilling kills?

[ June 29, 2001: Message edited by: The Wanderer ]

WD_ToRMeNt 06-30-2001 12:51 AM

LOL Don't say I didn't warn you when you meet up with the hardcore JK/UT/Q3 players that move into JK2 and show you what it means to be good at something.

Say what you will about me, it only shows how little you understand.

About the programming JK2 be like the movies... well you see, there exists in this world many players who play to win. And they often do things to win that the programmers didn't see coming. For instance, the rocket jump in the origional quake. The designers new it was possible, but they didnt realize how great of a roll it would play in the MP games of those were were skilled. Many believe that LEC never imagined how far some of us would take JK to win.

DeathBoLT 06-30-2001 12:57 AM

elitism is pretty lousy attitude. Tone down on the condescendations, Torment. While I don't like the idea of the slow-paced game they're suggesting either, their opinions and wants are just as good as we might have. They don't want to play how we play. Fine, they don't have to accept our point of view. As long as they're respecting it as we should respect theirs, theres nothing wrong.

to the rest, however, say in BGJ NF, there is some sensability in, what you guys seem to see as jumping around all crazy with no pattern when indeed, if you are playing anyone good, there is a pattern.

I don't like the idea of us mimicking how the starwar's firefights were, because they struck me as a bit slow paced. I'm for the removal the concusion rifle as I'd like a game that focuses more on accuracy, rather than heavy splash damage weapons, as conc fights in Ji O got old but I still want fast-paced action and well, the stormtroopers and rebels stood still exchanging fire.. standing still = boring.

BGJ NF was a very graceful and refined means of fighting, if you played it properly. While it no longer holds my interest anymore, and I'd like them to ditch types of play that would lead to the same stragies JK used, you can't say it was a screw up on lucasart's part. I can't play Rune simply b/c I feel like I'm moving in taffy. I need maneuverability, a fast paced gameplay. It was nice being able to dominate a map like you can in FF. It was nice controlling items, smashing everyone else in the game without. I enjoyed it immensely. I also want Jk2 to be noticeably different. I want JZA, Jeb, Luke18, Deaconfrost, Nightmarez, Logicbomb, Aeron, Narz, Patton, you, me, everyone on this forum, etc. etc. to start out newbies in it. And to continue to be newbies in it for the first few weeks. A Jk with new graphics isn't enough. Newer grahpics are a must, but so is newer gameplay. I'm flatout sick of Jk gameplay. I want something new. Something fairly fast paced. Starwar's style Jedi duels aren't exactly fast paced.. at least not ep4,ep5,ep6.

No offense torrent, but I hope Raven won't even look at you, much less ask to see how the 'elites' play JK. In fact, the only elites that still play generally are the ones that are relatively new to the game or too entrenched in one thing that refuse to learn any new form. I hope Raven blows that type off. I don't want Jk2=Jk.

What I'd like to see in Jk2 is more swings(single swings with the power of a double swing) with more sweeping motions. Think Rune's broadsword + speedier play + longer reach and build on that.

If they tone down force speed, you could have some really nice fast-pased saber fights with moderate force that's still there, but not in a dominating manner Jk's force powers took over. A bit of a big change from Jk's FF style of controlling powerups and tatical use of force powers, no? Thats the idea; drift away from Jk's concepts and create something new.

eheh hope my ideas aren't too jumbled..

[ June 29, 2001: Message edited by: [eVe]DeathBoLT ]

The Wanderer 06-30-2001 01:02 AM

well if I meet up with any ignorant hardcore dorks like yourself in JK2, I'll simply thank the lord I wasn't born with a jagged 6 foot long wooden stick embedded up my @$$. Oh, and you still didn't respond to any of my suggestions.

Ok, I'd really rather get on with this topic, maybe we should ignore Mr. Torment

[ June 29, 2001: Message edited by: The Wanderer ]

[ June 29, 2001: Message edited by: The Wanderer ]

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