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Tre Lightshadow 08-08-2001 01:37 AM

1st person saber
I haven't heard anything about being able to use the saber in first person. In the Unofficial FAQ it says that it automatically switches to 3rd person for the saber. Well, personally, I don't like 3rd person, even for the saber. I've become quite adept at playing in 1st person. I would, personally, miss the ability to play in First person with the saber.

digl 08-08-2001 01:47 AM

Of course Itll be possible
And Im sure that the auto camera will be an option just like in JK

Jimi-Wan 08-08-2001 03:35 AM

I'm right with you Tre Lightshadow, i love the first person mode and always played it. I agree w/ digl, it will be possible to switch from 1st and 3rd person camera's. If it isn't, that would be extremely weird, and unlikely.

nykel007 08-08-2001 10:30 AM

I agree, it should be possible to play 1st person with the saber. If it isn't used alot of people would lose out of a great gaming experience.

UberChild 08-08-2001 10:39 AM

Guys hopefully it will be like Jedi Knight, it will be an option you can choose,i.e auto camera to 3rd person with saber.. click yes or no, and probably a button to switch between 3rd and 1st.. personally, how the hell do you guys play in 1st person, you are denying yourselves oh well thats your choice :) and im not gonna argue, everybody has their own preferences (notice how im trying to prevent a topic of flaming here,) im sure they will get it right.. it would eb a huge oversight on their parts if they ****ed the views up.. :cool:

nykel007 08-08-2001 10:45 AM

With 1st person you get a better preception of your environment. Mind you, I also like the 3rd person view.

UberChild 08-08-2001 11:26 AM

True in 1st person you see directly where you are fighting, but A)in in 3rd person you can see all around you, so you dont get too close to a ledge or no-one sneaks up behind ya.. and B)you could use the tab button/map key so when you faught (at least in jk) you had a specific target cursor thing, just like you had in 1st person, which in my opinion was the only advantage of 1st person(although strongly outweighed by A). Oh well I hope they have both, and im sure they will.. if not they cant have played jk too much, coz both are needed.

nykel007 08-08-2001 03:08 PM

Yes let's hope. :D

Wilhuf 08-08-2001 03:29 PM

I played JK for a few months when it first came out in first person only. Then, I finally followed the manual's advice on using 3d person camera for saber dueling, and first person for gunning.

Much easier to swordfight in 3rd person, IMO for obvious reasons: you can see around and behind yourself, giving you a perceptual advantage that first person just doesn't provide, as was said. Sometimes I gun from 3rd person as well.

Plus sometimes it's just plain cool to play from the third person perspective. Vagabond and I were doing some Rune duels in slow-motion. Very cool to watch the slo-motion character animations from 3rd person.

Whatever gamers like is good, as long as there is an option to switch between both perspectives, on demand.

Seeing how Raven has good experience with game cameras (e.g. in Heretic II), we're in good hands.

[ August 08, 2001: Message edited by: Wilhuf ]

Rancor 08-08-2001 03:31 PM

Huh, you get a better perception of depth in 1st person ( I'm assuming you mean with a lightsaber ) ??

Never heard of such a thing....heh.

I will certainly relish running circles around you 1st person saber players in a heated MP match....j/k.

WD_ToRMeNt 08-08-2001 04:21 PM

Hehe I ALWAYS use 3rd person in JK, even for guns. It makes grip easier, and you have a better feel for where you are, and a wider view area. Jumps are easier in 3rd person as well.

It's a bit harder to aim, but I was so used to throwing destructions in BGJ, getting used to conc wasn't to bad. At my peak I could bullseye a bacta or boost from across BGJ while moving with speed 4 and force jumping sideways between cliffs.

It's also a big of an advantage in NF guns because you can peek around corners without exposing yourself. Best of all though, is that with the wider viewing area it's easier to spot and enemy. The person who sees the other first has the first shot advantage.

CaptainRAVE 08-08-2001 05:52 PM

I only use 3rd person because it looks so much better :)

Wilhuf 08-08-2001 06:49 PM


At my peak I could bullseye a bacta or boost from across BGJ while moving with speed 4 and force jumping sideways between cliffs.
I could do that with one hand behind my back.

CaptainRAVE 08-08-2001 06:56 PM

Yea, who couldnt :rolleyes:

KillerBee 08-08-2001 07:03 PM

bactas don't move. :)

but ext is the best way to play jk all the time.. the added spacial awareness, better fov is a great advantage, if you want a xhair just get a transparancy, over your monitor with a x drawn on it ^^
(or fiddle about cogging one)

CaptainRAVE 08-08-2001 07:04 PM

Anyway...just because your amazing at JK does not mean you'll be good at JK2. People who play EF will be better than you because they will have the feel of how Raven make their games.

Xeph 08-08-2001 07:36 PM


People who play EF will be better than you

KillerBee 08-08-2001 07:58 PM

if jk2s multiplayer turns out in anyway similar to efs mp, I will retire to a monestry.

Wilhuf 08-08-2001 08:04 PM

I'd recommend you start by memorizing the Psalms, Bee. ;)

Same game engine, same developers. There will be similarities.

[ August 08, 2001: Message edited by: Wilhuf ]

CaptainRAVE 08-08-2001 08:05 PM

No games handle like JK anymore, thats years old. Games control much more realistically these days. Anyoner good at EF and have played JK will have a definate advantage over you. Xeph, you obviously havent played EF, or any new games otherwise youd know what I mean.

Denise 08-08-2001 08:29 PM

Guys, it's a shooter, not rocket science. Most professed "advantages" from having played games on the same engine will evaporate in a week or two (if not the first several hours of gameplay), with the remainder of the learning curve being those little parlor tricks that are typically game-specific. :)

Getting back to the topic, I've always preferred first-person sabering. Gameplay sounds and simple experience make up for the reduced visibility, in my opinion, and then there's the just flat-out better perspective for actually striking at someone --again, just my opinion. Only time will tell whether this holds true for the (hopefully) more complex saber battles of JK2.

KillerBee 08-08-2001 11:47 PM

yeah there will be similarities like you kill stuff to win.. what I really meant is similarities in the level of care put in, ef dm looks like it was done in 30 seconds :/

the fact no games handle lag like jk will be a disadvantage, but the fact jkers can use a sabre will be one to us (case in point, last lan I played in, I owned everyone at q3 gauntlets only ^^ inc some guy who at last event was 23 in the uk.. (and disapointed)
the fact he used to play nf sabs was the only thing that made him a challange to my clear dominance at walking backwards holding fire erm gauntletting ;))

jkers also have better reactions (well the good ones) their brains work faster (after playing cs and q3 for a while and then going back to jk, everything was a blur for a day or so, I couldnt keep up on map, (jkers have to do mapping and watch the main screen at the same time) and that was after just a few games of cs or q3.. so after someones played nothing but, they are screwed if jk2 is anywhere near the speed of jk1, and if it has an overlay map (which I hope it does))
jkers can handle more then 6 buttons!! (unlike most casual gamers..)

(ps jker refering to people who were slightly hardcore)

I think jk players will have some advantages, but ef/q3ers will no how the lag works.. which will help them.. it will only be temp advantage anyway.. and seeing Ive been playing both ph33r! :D

btw the little tricks in jk take a while to collect usually.. (well clans are fast track ways.. get spoon feed them :/)

Gabrobot 08-09-2001 01:35 AM

I prefer 1st person for the guns, but there is NO WAY I can use the saber in 1st person view. Mainly it's bacause the saber moves faster in 1st person view, and you don't really know where the saber is because the saber has already finished swinging when the saber is still actually swinging!

Besides 3rd person saber is cooler, especially in MotS with the Saber Battles X patch instaled! :cool:

[ August 08, 2001: Message edited by: Gabrobot ]

WD_ToRMeNt 08-09-2001 05:15 AM

Hehe ya, I recently decided to go hardcore into q3 after I started raping hardcore bots into the negs and winning online. I changed the newbie 1,2,3... guns hotkeys to my q,w,e,r,f,g force hotkeys. It's sweet when you rail some one then before they know it you put a rocket in thier face hehe. It's like the feeling I got when I hit with destruct and grip almost simultaniously.

I actually needed to add 2 keys (z and x) the so I could hotkey mechinegun - plasma and zoom view. (no real need to hotkey gauntlet or BGF). You only need 6 force hotkeys in JK cause 2 powers from each side are usless.

WD_ToRMeNt 08-09-2001 05:23 AM

Actually, that just made me think about hotkeys in JK2. With the Q3 engine, JK2 won't be like JK in that only 2 guns and saber were affective in MP. But then, at higher levels of force and thus speed, direct fire weapons won't be as usefull as area weapons.

I'll prolly have to go with having 2 sets of hoykeys, one made for high force (forces hotkeyed, and maybe a couple splash damage guns and saber) and a NF/low force set (all or most guns and saber, maybe a force or 2 if i have room).

Having 2 sets of hotkeys could make it a bit more challenging, but then I don't seem to have any problem going between JK and Q3. I hope there will be some type of multi user support so that I won't have to mess with resetting my hotkeys every time I change servers.

KillerBee 08-09-2001 04:39 PM

well I actually ended up with 2 less keys then my jk setup, which I then rebound into a nice chat script..
lg, rail, rocket are the only weapons in q3 really needed, mg for finishing off people, and shot gun for if someone gets in your face, I hate the plasma gun, and the bfg is rarely used. gauntlets I use more then plasma or the mg, but keys 1 and 2 for gauntlet are very easy to access with my config.

I love to rocket people on space maps, off into the void, then rail them before they suicide.. mmm fun.
a rail followed by a nice shafts good to ^^ (lgs actually do the most damage per sec (160ish) in q3.. but they dont fry people under water anymore :()

I've not properly got into q3, I just dabble wif it to own the people at my uni lan parties..
which I do with ease seeing I got st00pidly good item timing abilities from playing jk too much.

2 configs isnt hard to adjust to, really, just bind similar to similar, grip, or close combat weapon. desturction or rl.. simple..
if jk2 balances up 6 -8 good force powers, and 4-6 top guns, there might be trouble :)
although its possible to do lower the number of keys needed..

set weapg11 "weapon 2;set weapg1 vstr weapg12"
set weapg12 "weapon 6;set weapg1 vstr weapg13"
set weapg13 "weapon 8;set weapg1 vstr weapg11"
set weapg1 vstr weapg11
bind x vstr weapg1
which makes button x scroll through mg, lg, pg.
which nicely condenses the setup.
tho tbh lg is on my list of 1 hit keys, and I would never bind more then 2 weapons together like that..

what worries me tho, is with this you could do:
bind d "force_grip; use_force; wait ;use_force; wait; use_force;wait use_force"
:/ tho jk2 wont have sith grip /me prays

[ August 09, 2001: Message edited by: KillerBee ]

Kumba 08-09-2001 06:44 PM

Those who play Ef will definately have an advantage. I'm thinking I'll have a super advantage cause I play Descent and EF which I dominate both. If you can play Descent with skill you will play better than anyone at any fps game there is simply because Descent makes your aiming accuracy shoot through the roof. Nuff said.

Moose-windu 08-09-2001 07:20 PM

I know there is gonna be a third person saber mode, because it says so in the UK review of JKO. Personally, I can't even imagine fighting against another jedi without the third person view


Moose-windu 08-09-2001 07:22 PM

The UK review said there will be a toggle button.

Wilhuf 08-09-2001 07:31 PM

One nice thing about Q3 tech is the scripting support. You could easily set up multiple key profiles by executing different configurations as needed.

bind kp_end "exec lowforce.cfg ; echo Low Force Configuration Loaded"
bind kp_downarrow "exec medforce.cfg ; echo Medium Force Configuration Loaded"
bind kp_pgdn "exec highforce.cfg ; echo High Force Configuration Loaded"


Bee, yes that would be really lousy if supergrip or superlightning showed up in Jedi Outcast.

[ August 09, 2001: Message edited by: Wilhuf ]

KillerBee 08-09-2001 08:46 PM

mm configs are great for use, I hope they make qbind support jk2 for free, I think you need to get the $19.9* version for EF :/ so I doubt they will..

I got 1v1, ffa, team dm, and CTF mini configs that load for q3, with server tweaks, different chat files etc for each.
but in jk2 the useage should be great, q2 had much greater use for scripts imho then q3, eg zoom scripts (although the tweaked zoom for q3 which switches your mouse wheel over to toggle zoom level is useful, but q3s not a snipy game..)
but scripts can be used for the dark side ;) eg cs gren spam scripts..

ohh and aim isnt the all important factor in jk, movement, and item control can be used to overcome superior aim I am hoping it will be the same in jk2, q3 annoys me cause of the quick weapon spawn times.. If it had 30s spawns on them, I could happily stop rail whores ever touching their weapon of choice..

UberChild 08-11-2001 10:44 AM

If you guys wanna know how to aim a gun in 3rd person made, just press the map key .. i think the default is "tab" yes it brings up the annoyin green lines of the map.. nothin major, but it brings up the red maker.. which i guess is you..(never paid attention to it) wherever this red marker is is where you will shoot.. assuming you use the mouse to look (if you dont, just give up and go back to doom) wherever you aim the red marker is where you will shoot.. its actually rather effective.. :cool:

KillerBee 08-11-2001 11:32 AM

well map should already be up for its everso useful "I know where everyone is feature" :)
And if you actually look at a wall and use that its slightly uncalibrated.. and you miss just slightly. but its still a good marker, and my aim improves with it up (seeing at most ranges the splash of the conky makes up for it :))

Vagabond 08-11-2001 01:26 PM

Back to the original point of dicussion, when playing Jedi Knight, I use first-person view all the way, sabers and guns. It's far more immersive, and have been quite successful, even without using the cheap 3rd-person corner-peak. Although, I do use the hell out of Force See, which feels like cheating.

Syndrix 08-11-2001 01:39 PM

Yeah I agree Vagabond, Force see does feel like cheating. I really hope they do something about that with force see in JK2.

Vagabond 08-11-2001 03:02 PM

I haven't heard any mention of Force See, but contrarily, I hope they do include it. It really makes sense that one should be able to sense other life forces and force users.

Perhaps one could automatically sense life forces and non-shielded Force users on the map, without using the force, similar to how Ben passively noticed all the people on Alderaan dying - that is, he didn't actively turn on Force See and then noticed they weren't there.

Similarly, perhaps one has to actively turn on Force See to find Force Users who are using Jedi Mind Trick. Perhaps the level of Force See -vs- Jedi Mind Trick would determine the accuracy of the target's location on your HUD map.

Just some ideas.

Syndrix 08-11-2001 04:24 PM

I hope they include force see as well. The ability to sense lifeforms and force users does indeed make sense (no pun intended). But I could never get my head around it being part of force see.

It seems that it should be a power on its own, akin to sensing impending danger around corners etc (which was discussed some time ago on another post).


Perhaps one could automatically sense life forces and non-shielded Force users on the map, without using the force, similar to how Ben passively noticed all the people on Alderaan dying
I see what your getting at, but I believe it would have detrimental effect on gameplay, you would know where every stormtrooper in SP was. Too easy. Also reason ben felt that was because it was a great disturbance, as if a million people screamed at once and then were silenced.

If Raven make it that you can actively sense other Jedi using Force seeing, perhaps it could be skill based(assuming force powers still have levels like stars in JK). If Jedi A using mind trick has more "stars" than the Jedi B using seeing, maybe seeing doesnt penetrate the mind trick.

Speaking of that, off topic (as if I'm not already), but I hope there are enough force powers of different variety that are actually useful to make people spread "stars" (assuming again) across them. In JK you basically took the skills that were actually good and put 4 stars in them, it would be nice in JK2 if there were so many useful ones that you ended up with a couple of 2's, a few 3's, etc. Or you could have highest in some but that means you have a toal lack of others. Some choice, means not everyone is using the same powers (or close enough to the same), adds to the game IMO.
Just an Idea

[ August 11, 2001: Message edited by: Syndrix ]

KillerBee 08-11-2001 05:23 PM

force seeing never felt like cheating.
everyone could use it.
and it made game play more intresting imho, when you could see the other players you had to move, no camping, no ambushes, you could play mind games using it to.. some guy with the surge, you without, ohh dear, well I can get him stuck in a position where he cant get to shoot me, so negating its advantage, and eventually let it run out without taking damage..

if you are going to change, it I would like a compas kinda thing, that shows direction of poeple.. sort of like the motion tracker from avp. just showing the position of people, not the map as well.. and the circles indicating their positions get blured with mind trick, maybe so you see them reversed, ie they are attacking you from one direction, on the map it shows it from the other side..

NeJJa 08-11-2001 05:26 PM

heheh if someone has the surge and i don't i just try to get rails and bacta and go for surge next time. if they come after me i use the nightmarez tactic heheheh stay at the repeater and whatever way they come at u go the other way. wait for surge. SURGE IS GOD!!!!!!!!! :eek:

Tre Lightshadow 08-12-2001 04:14 AM

Ya. And Super Shield is the devil. :D

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