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-   -   56k, a no no? (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=34795)

Saber_Trails 03-19-2002 04:07 AM

56k, a no no?
 
Do you think that it will be too hard to play with 56k in say a 4 player game? Post yes or no and then why. I get 300-500 ping btw..

Bowen 03-19-2002 04:23 AM

Re: 56k, a no no?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Saber_Trails
Do you think that it will be too hard to play with 56k in say a 4 player game? Post yes or no and then why. I get 300-500 ping btw..
I think you would able to play but I'm not sure how good it will be. I have DSL and when I play Medal of Honor I usually get a ping of 39 to 100 and it's usually around 70 for an average. Sometimes when someone joins with a dial-up connection it can slow the whole game down to a crawl and when I've got to 200 and above ping it's not really playable. Who knows for sure what you'll get. Raven can work miracles with game engines. Hopefully they are equally as talented with the Net code. Worst-case scenario is that it's too laggy to play online but you could still have nearly as much fun with bots. Wait and see though.

HBK 03-19-2002 04:55 AM

I agree, you can. It won't be easy at times, but it will be do'able. I hear the netcode for Q3 is good, and it's been tweaked(if I remember correctly). If you're only concerned with a 4 player(small) game that should help to. Stick to dedicated servers(they're usually the best) and of course those close to you. Maybe try and find friends or other people who also have 56K.

Host a game and you'll always have the lowest ping. ;)

Good luck, have fun.

Krak3n 03-19-2002 05:01 AM

I played Elite Force and Quake 3 with 56k for about 6 months and i have to say my ping was on average of 190-200. At that point it is really laggy but playable. 56k is no longer adequate to games online now, as more and more people go broadband. If u can get bruadband as soon as possible. No dial up, instant connection...fast connection, average d/l of 60kb/s, i tell ya once you get bruadband your whole perseption of the internet changes. :D

Darth Ergotht 03-19-2002 05:59 AM

Well, don't get any hope to.. I have a DSL and sometimes, Hmmm..... I would say most of the time the game is laggy and I can'T do anything to help it. The game speed depends on all players, not only you. I think that for a 4 player game a 56k is ok. But not more cuz it'll be already laggy as hell. Playing online without lag is a dream to me !

Belgirion 03-19-2002 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darth Ergotht
Well, don't get any hope to.. I have a DSL and sometimes, Hmmm..... I would say most of the time the game is laggy and I can'T do anything to help it. The game speed depends on all players, not only you. I think that for a 4 player game a 56k is ok. But not more cuz it'll be already laggy as hell. Playing online without lag is a dream to me !
you have dsl and you lag that bad? it must be your computer, not your 'net connection

UseDaAgression 03-19-2002 06:52 AM

Jus found someone that serves ADSL yesterday. Whats the difference and if anyone has or has had it can you put any positive/negative coments?

Redvan 03-19-2002 08:02 AM

It can do it!
 
I play 32 people Tribes 2. little lag, 56k usually only 45.2 kbps. 950 MHz Athalon. So i don't think it'll be too bad. not bad enough not to play!

JaG|Kaiser 03-19-2002 08:15 AM

No, as long as you are used to the lag. I've seen some great players in very ping-dependent games with pings between 250-400. I've seen snipers kick butt with 600ms. It's all in what you are used to.

Vanion VDS 03-19-2002 08:23 AM

adsl is assymetric which means that' your upload doesnt take bandwith of your download and vice versa...

playing jk2 on 56k...well that's gonna suck unless you host but then it will suck for everyone else...

anyway most dedicated servers have a certain min rate/packet sending on their servers and since 56k can't keep up with broadbanders you usually freez up in q3...the q3 netcode isnt very 56k friendly so i think you will have a hard time even though i don't know how much they have improved the netcode in Q3 TA...

hopefully somthing similar to q3 CPMA will fix the rate problems and maybe even make it more fair to play transatlantic

Darth Ergotht 03-19-2002 08:33 AM

I thin kthat my problem is that I have a max upload rate at 16 k/sec. I have a Duron 750 and a TNT2. Sometimes my connection is like going down for no reason. Maybe it's my inernet provider that sucks. But anyway, when I play iwth DSl and cable I don't have any problems. But I think 56k isn't enough to have fun in MP. Too slow and sometimes you think you'Re shooting at a guy but he's like 1 kilometers away.

ryudom 03-19-2002 08:43 AM

i have a 56k and i can play jk multiplayer with barely any lag- if theres 4 people or less and other people have cable/dsl or a fast 56k connection(relatively anyway).

sometimes its really bad, but as long as i have a good host i can play with very very little lag. i like playing sbx with trails and it works fine! then again, i've had some lag on my lan too(!?).

some ppl say q3 netcode is far better, but maybe its not as good for saber fighting? hopefully it'll run well, and hopefully raven tweaked it to be more able to handle sabers? maybe i don't know what i'm talking about.

btw, my ping is usually 190-350

Chanke4252 03-19-2002 11:53 AM

I want to get a cable connection but I dont really want to pay for a seperate connection for everyone's computer in the house. And I dont want to have cables running all down the halls and everything. Whats my solution here.

Silent_Thunder 03-19-2002 12:23 PM

I wish I could get cable where I live... but sadly, I can't because I live too far out of town. I might be able to get satelite connection sometime... But that's expensive, and I've heard it doesn't work too well if it's cloudy--which I get alot of the year... So, I'm stuck on 56k for now...

I really, really, hope Raven takes into consideration us poor 56k users. I hope they can make the netcode as good as it is in Tribes 2... I can play 40+ person game with little lag, even though I get pings of over 300-400. Also, I could play the orignal Jedi Knight pretty easily with hardly any lag, and an average ping of about 300 (on a 4 person game). Also, I can generally play MMOs with little lag in crowded areas... but that's a totally different kind of netcode I'm sure...

But sadly it looks I won't be able to play MP, since the Q3 engine isn't too good for 56k.. I just hope Raven modified the netcode as well as the engine... for the better.

acdcfanbill 03-19-2002 12:26 PM

heck, i play JK all the time with guys who have pings of 500... anywho, i better get some MP in quick, cause when i go home for the summer, no internet for my computer... :mad:

Zodiac 03-19-2002 12:31 PM

talking about JK1 being playable wih 56K isn't relevant to Jk2, because their netcodes work totally different.

FES_Kosigan 03-19-2002 12:33 PM

FES_Kosigan
 
To all you guys with broadband who are not getting their 'desired' rate of download/upload, head over to Speedguide.net . The broadband patches there increased my download speed by 100kb :) . Ah, also, first post ~receives his chocolate Jedi medallion~

Silent_Thunder 03-19-2002 12:37 PM

"talking about JK1 being playable wih 56K isn't relevant to Jk2, because their netcodes work totally different"

Actually, it is relevant, if a 4 year old game with a crappy netcode could handle 56kers, then JKII should sure as hell be able to handle 56kers... Should I say, because I have a feeling that, while the netcode may evolve for the broadband users, it will de-evolve for us 56kers... I hope they improve the netcode for everyone, jsut as they've improved the rest of the game.

Zodiac 03-19-2002 12:55 PM

in JK1 MP, when u pinged ur opponent and ur ping to him was 600, then his ping to you would also be around 600. In JK2 MP it doesnt work that way anymore. You ping urself to one central dedicated server. This is excellent for gunning, u see ur opponent where he actually is= u can now actually aim at ur opponent and hit him, instead of having to "predict" and aim 4 feet in front of him...

Just an example:
You have a ping of 300 (which would be good for JK1 lol), your opponent has a ping of 50. You get in a gunfight with ur opponent.
You're both shooting, but you had him in ur crosshair first and u started shooting first. Your aim is good, you can't miss, you started shooting first, you both have the same weapon and same health, so you expect him to die first.

That doesn't happen: You die first and he lives. That's because his bullets were recognized sooner by the server, because he had a lower ping.
You might think: ooh, that 0.25 second difference isn't important, but these shootouts happen very often, and u will die a lot just because ur opponent has a better ping. After a while, that becomes incredibly frustrating. You know u have better aim, better moves, better reflexes, but he has that 0.25 second difference that makes u lose.

Now when u join a server with ur 56K and 200 or higher ping, and everybody else on that server has a bad ping too, then it's not such a big problem...
But when u join a server where everybody has broadband connections and a ping of 50, then ur the one with one big disadvantage. :D

oh well.. JK2'll still be playable with 56K, but those people will just have a big disadvantage when they're on a server with all other users having low pings. :)

HBK 03-19-2002 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FES_Kosigan
To all you guys with broadband who are not getting their 'desired' rate of download/upload, head over to Speedguide.net . The broadband patches there increased my download speed by 100kb :) . Ah, also, first post ~receives his chocolate Jedi medallion~
That site OWNZ! My download speed went from 997kbps to 1405kbps! Up load went from 122kbps to 126 kbps. Over all I went from '19x faster than 56K to 28 x faster that 56k.'*

Thank you FES_Kosigan (my hero)and welcome to the forums.

*Info: I tested at www.dfw.speakeasy.net . I did 3 tests before installing patch and 3 after. 3 d-load speeds before were 997, 982 and 977. 3 d-load speeds after were 1405, 1405 and 1381. the upload speeds were the same, +/- 1 or 2.

I also tested over at MSN http://computingcentral.msn.com/internet/speedtest.asp

only did 1 test before(stupid HBK)
There I went from 488kbps to 873kbps

HBK

Agen 03-19-2002 01:54 PM

Lol, ahs anyone ever played EF with a 56k.... it sucks so bad it's bloody funny.People jsut stand still and appear a few feet away and then more, and there's no bullets at all beleive me, you sjut lose health every after every 2 seconds and your bullets jsut makes noises no graphics at all.

]SD[MasterYoda 03-19-2002 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HBK
I agree, you can. It won't be easy at times, but it will be do'able. I hear the netcode for Q3 is good, and it's been tweaked(if I remember correctly). If you're only concerned with a 4 player(small) game that should help to. Stick to dedicated servers(they're usually the best) and of course those close to you. Maybe try and find friends or other people who also have 56K.

Host a game and you'll always have the lowest ping. ;)

Good luck, have fun.

quake 3 and good netcode? HA

quake 3 is a definite LPB game, look at Half-Life, that is good netcode

CaptainPOE 03-19-2002 02:16 PM

It it possible. Of course it is. There are still a lot of 56k'ers out there. I myself was until 3 weeks ago when I finally got DSL. I played CS for 2 years with a 56k modem, and before that numerous other MP games. It will be harder and you will be at a disadvantage but you will still be able to have a good time if you find a good server that doesn't lag too much. If there happens to be DSL or cable in your area and you just haven't gotten it yet you really need to try to get it because it is definitely worth it. It is usually only about $20 more a month than a regular dial up service. If your parents won't let you get it try to work a deal out with them. Like with my parents I now pay the $20 difference each month (and I had to keep my job that I was going to quit :( ) But yea it will work, but you'd have a better time with broadband if it is available.

ALSO, look at it this way. If you aren't able to get broadband you will be building your skills because you will be at a disadvantage and when you do get it, you will be totally kicking @$$, just like I am in CS...well, not really, but you understand what I'm sayin right ;)

Zodiac 03-19-2002 02:28 PM

I get you POE :rolleyes:.. JK2'll still be playable with 56K, but those people will just have a big disadvantage.. :) But people can still have fun, even with a big disadvantage.

Caster 03-19-2002 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ]SD[MasterYoda


quake 3 and good netcode? HA

quake 3 is a definite LPB game, look at Half-Life, that is good netcode

Sure... If you like bullets that have gravitational forces and pull back into other peoples line of fire.

I find the HL engine to be VERY annoying. Making the majority of the code client side instead of server side was a bad idea on VALVe's part.

-Caster

CaptainPOE 03-19-2002 02:51 PM

FES_Kosigan, thanks for posting that link! I dl'ed a patch there and installed it. Before I installed it I checked out the analyzer and was getting 327 and 131. After installing I'm now getting;
1277 and 511!!! Muchos gracias amigo ;)

thrEEpaGe 03-19-2002 03:12 PM

jk2 w/ 56k will be very possible, especially if people are actually smart and use dedicated servers...usually the idiot 56gay users are either smart enough to know that hosting a server on a 56gay is suicide or dont have any idea what a dedicated server is =)

so therefore, most dedicated servers will be run on relatively good machines and fast connections, and that is the most determinging factor in lag (that is a large factor, but there are others, such as the individual users' lag)...but anyway, the pings are playable....i would be fine playing jk2 on a 56gay....it will be somewhat annoying though =)

UseDaAgression 03-19-2002 03:49 PM

My Quesiton!!!: Anyone have DirectTV ADSL im going to get it but dont wanna be stuck with a crappy service!! Newbie Question - Is upload when you are connecting or playing off someone eles computer or somthing???

]SD[MasterYoda 03-19-2002 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UseDaAgression
My Quesiton!!!: Anyone have DirectTV ADSL im going to get it but dont wanna be stuck with a crappy service!! Newbie Question - Is upload when you are connecting or playing off someone eles computer or somthing???
upload is when you send data to others

Agen 03-19-2002 04:42 PM

Quote:

I find the HL engine to be VERY annoying. Making the majority of the code client side instead of server side was a bad idea on VALVe's part.
No Half-Life's netcode is very, very good and not at all annoying unless you're on a really bad serrver, but otherwise, it's excellent and it'd be much better if they had that netcode for jk2... not the engine mijnd u :)

KandyFLip 03-19-2002 07:26 PM

Quote:

I want to get a cable connection but I dont really want to pay for a seperate connection for everyone's computer in the house. And I dont want to have cables running all down the halls and everything. Whats my solution here.
You could get something like this: http://www.dlink.com/products/broadband/di714/

and set up the computers in other parts of the house with wireless network cards. Works pretty well :p

Scrobes 03-19-2002 07:37 PM

I'd advise you not to get your hopes up. Considering the many subtleties that JKII will incorporate now with increased saber tactics/maneuvers, I don't feel that 56k would be able to handle that, and give you a fair response in return. A delay of half a second could shift the balance in a saber fight, it seems.

I could be wrong, but I never had much luck with 56k, unless the server I was on had very few people on, and this is across Q3/RtCW. Pings usually were around 260. Not _really_ bad, but I'm of the opinion that you'd need a much lower ping to increase your chances in the deadly dance of saber-play that will soon take shape on the JKII servers... ;)

Zek 03-19-2002 07:40 PM

56k is a no no for just about everything.

Steg 03-20-2002 03:24 PM

i used 2 play the EF demo online on my 56kbps modem wif my 350Mhz K6-2 and my Voodoo 3...(dont worry i have a new machine now!) and apart from being slow 2 load the levs....(yeh i no 1 guy was on 9 frags in a 10 frag game by the time i was loaded) and Q3 has that new data compression software so playing Q3 on my 1Ghz Athlon and Ge3 Ti 200 with a 56k conneion is a bit laggy every now and then but it is not that bad...
Steg

Saber_Trails 03-20-2002 04:49 PM

I know that 56k is slow and all, I use to have DSL but then lost it. I think that as long as I chill with 4 players max and battle Ill be alright. Maybe someday Ill get my DSL back and then ill be l33t.

dan-o2 03-21-2002 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Krak3n
I played Elite Force and Quake 3 with 56k for about 6 months and i have to say my ping was on average of 190-200. At that point it is really laggy but playable. 56k is no longer adequate to games online now, as more and more people go broadband. If u can get bruadband as soon as possible. No dial up, instant connection...fast connection, average d/l of 60kb/s, i tell ya once you get bruadband your whole perseption of the internet changes. :D
Yes, I suppose you would gain a new perspective on the internet. So many new decisions, like "Maybe I'll get some pornography today" Or "I think I'll get pornography" Or maybe even "Are you up for pornography? I know I am!" Stuff like that. It really makes you rexamine the internet. :)

<--- 26,400 and proud, baby.


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