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Pagan 02-05-2001 08:48 PM

Hmm, so where does everyone play? How do I fidn online games to join?
I haven't played JK or MotS for a while, and now I'm trying to find some people who are still playing it online. Can anyone give me an idea were to look, or maybe even the IP for a serve that is up 24/7?

Any help is appreciated!

Boba Rhett 02-05-2001 10:34 PM

Well, the place were most peole play it now is but there are alot of hackers there.

Tierfen 02-05-2001 11:12 PM

I've been wondering the same thing. I thinkk the besst way, though, is to find a group of folks, exchange ICQ #'s and someone host and the others connect via TCP/IP. I find you get better ping times and you don't end up playing with a bunch of "clan killers".
If anyone's interested, I'd be happy to get a game going....

E-mail me and I'll send my ICQ #.

Kurgan 02-07-2001 01:58 AM

You can still use the IP boards: Invite your friends and use them, it's what they're there for!

Also they work with Qtracker Free and easy to use...

I prefer not to use the Zone, but sometimes its the only place that many games are going on anymore (sadly). I say spread the word and play on IP (my personal choice). also supports JK/MOTS and is IMHO better than the Zone. Again fewer people realize you can go there, but if you invite more folks to come, they may switch. We can only hope.. ; )


Jedi SuperBuen 02-07-2001 02:03 PM

I usually go to the zone, but I have a group of people on my "friend" list that I know aren't cheaters and are about my strenght therefore it makes for a good challenging game for all of us!

You can do it your own way
Just as long as it's done just how I say...

Bonfire 02-08-2001 09:31 PM

zone is a pretty good place, but watch out for hackers! i got hacked once real good, the guy joined, typed something like "i am sith" and the game went all wired...couldn't move some times, couldn't use force powers and the guy was invulnerable, it was quite frustrating....luckly enough he was a "good guy" and left buy his own free will.
So watch out! i say find a better place to play.

your friendly neighbour hood Bonfire

Kurgan 02-08-2001 09:48 PM

On a related note, it's too bad Kicker Helper never added an "auto-kick" feature, but it was still a great program. When 1.03b came out it really put a dent in the cheaters that I ran into (they learned to fear and respect it).

And by the time 2.0 came out, that was basically the end of the line for cheaters in my games.. I've had lots of good luck without them since then. ; )

Still, go to the Zone and you'll find "haX" rooms and people asking how to cheat, pretty pathetic. Then there's the whole deal of people accusing you of cheating if you beat them, which sucks...


Jedi SuperBuen 02-09-2001 01:20 PM

Yeah what a lot of people don't realize is that if someone is lagging it might appear they are cheating b/c you see them in front of you but really they already moved...

The kick feature is great but usually people that cheat have all these different characters (which is kind of a give away that's you're a cheater if you can't have a simple name).

Another way of knowing if there's a cheater in the game is everything will start screwing up... The floors might change colours and you might see spaces between walls, things like that...

I guess the best way like I said is to find a few people you can trust and keep playing with 'em.

You can do it your own way
Just as long as it's done just how I say...

Kurgan 02-09-2001 10:14 PM

Yeah, if you read MERC_Tiberius's page, he gives all sorts of information about what are cheats and what aren't, so people can get a better idea of what to expect.

Ascii characters used to be a big deal, and it's too bad the JK devs didn't see that one coming, but that's the first thing that Kicker Helper corrected. I remember not "believing" when I heard you could run this program to "rename" people in game!
; )

The way to recognize a cheater, is first you suspect something is up, so you ping them. Let's say they aren't lagging bad (ie: their ping is normal, under 500).. then you check their name. 99.9% of the time, if a person had ascii or long spaces and such in their name, they were planning to cheat. Some of 'em even had the audacity to say "I have cheats, but I wasn't going to use them!" (yeah right, they always whip 'em out when they start to lose, doh!).

Most of the cheats I ran into in the past ('98-'99) were pretty obvious: people flying around, shooting their guns as if they had powerboosts in levels that didn't have them, being unable to target the person EVER, being teleported or "fade/deleted", or being blasted with multiple destructions, or a guy simply spawning with all the weapons (doh!).

A few cheats were pretty bad too because they filled the level with 3do's (lag!) and changed textures in the level all to the same texture (ugly!). Or the ones that screw up your viewport so you spin around uncontrollably (in your hud) and get stuck in a wall.

Thankfully, 99% of those cheats were stopped by Kicker Helper.. what a boon to the community. I wish Tiberius was still around so I could thank him again. ; )

Then instead of a cheater pissing me off and ruining my game, I get to have a blast tormenting him by foiling all of his attempts to cheat and laughing. <eg>

But, yeah, I pity the folks who have never heard of KH...


[This message has been edited by Kurgan (edited February 09, 2001).]

Darth_Chaos 02-10-2001 05:01 PM

ok, this is a 2 part answer here,

#1 to the actual topic, I would reccommend that you join a real good gaming clan such as the Rebel Squadrons ( ) or the Star Vipers ( ) also, the Emperors Hammer (sorry I dunno the URL for them) or you can just search an IRC chat room ( on Undernet #rs_bar_and_grill and ask for a JK game, normally I go by `Wraith or Apoclypse)

#2 Kurgan, I used to have some interesting cheats, like a transform one, and a few others, but I got too good at playing, so I just DEL. them,

Your Local Sith Lord

Kurgan 02-10-2001 09:00 PM

Good for you.. some of those cheats I found on the 'net were so whacky sounding, that I had to try them out myself, but I tested them in private games with the full knowledge of all involved.

Some of them were interesting, but in all, they just go to show how lame online cheating really is. At least knowing what the cheats do makes them easier to spot and stop. I guess if there's a weakness in a game, people will exploit it if they can (simply "because they can").


Boba Rhett 02-10-2001 09:08 PM

Compared to other games, Jedi Knight is relatively easy to hack isn't it? Just wondering.

Bonfire 02-11-2001 01:23 AM

are all these crazy stupid cheats programmed into the game? or are they just alterations?

and on a completely unrelated topic, how dose my rank in this forum go up, i don't really like being the low guy on the totem pole.

your friendly neighbourhood Bonfire

Boba Rhett 02-11-2001 01:48 AM

They're fairly easily created alterations made to the jk cogs, item.dat and such...

I think you have to get 50 posts to be a jedi knight. So post more!!!!!! I don't think there's anything higher than that except for mod status.

Real programmers don't document. If it was hard to write, it should be hard to understand

Boba Rhett 02-11-2001 01:53 AM

For example, making a super fast swinging god saber that can hit people from across the room only requires about 2 minutes of changing several numbers. Or making a bacta completely heal you whenever you need it to requires all of ten seconds. Anymore questions?

Kurgan 02-11-2001 02:56 AM

Yeah, apparently Diablo was also very easy to "hack" and almost was ruined by cheating. The dev's released many patches and stuff to stop cheating, but apparently it was all in vain in the long run...

No game is 100% immune to cheating, but some are easier to cheat at than others.

Online RPG's have often run into the problem of "PK" or Player Killers. That is people who go around killing other player characters and stealing their stuff, rather than playing the game "right" and only killing AI and working to earn their gear. This is simply due to a few oversights on the part of developers (ie: they probably figured the ability to hurt other players would lend to strategy... like "oops, don't hit your buddy by mistake!").

With regard to JK/MOTS:

The single player "cheats" were programmed into the game by the dev's. Cheats such as these are great for reviewers, testers, and developers because they can allow them to test stuff and skip around the game without having to replay every single second of it.

For users who have already beaten the game or gotten bored with it, cheats are a way of screwing around and having fun or trying out whacky stunts. Oftentimes the game company will "release" these cheats to the public a short time after the games release (the logic being they don't want to do it right away so that everybody cheats and it's no challenge).

As to multiplayer cheats, these are basically mods that people have made that exploit weaknesses in the protection and peer to peer system of the games. This means they can exploit holes in the programming to allow them an unfair advantage over people who have unmodified files. Cheating of this sort is usually much tougher to do in Client/Server based online games, but it can still happen (such cheats in the Quake games like "full bright" that lets you see even in darkness and bot aiming that lets you have better aim than normal).

Contrary to what some folks believe, the single player cheats to NOT work in Multiplayer. Typing in cheat codes in multiplayer does nothing.

Yes, most MP cheats are pretty easy to do, and pretty lame. Many of the cheats have no point other than to piss people off and ruin any competition and fun in the game (such as by screwing up the level, making it so that people can't even move and lagging the game with extra 3dos).

Some cheaters seek merely to "test out" cool looking cheats, but to do so, they barge into legitimate games and ruin it for the other people there. Others seek to impress newbies that have never seen anything like this before. This explains the numerous people on the zone clamoring for people to "teach me how to hack!"

The sad fact is, that while some tried to defend the practice of "hacking" Jedi Knight by saying that it "took skill and intelligence" most of the stuff is as basic as changing one number in a notepad file and hitting "save" or whatnot. And in addition, most of the time, people just downloaded the cheater cogs off of the internet, so it took zero effort on their part to use them.

There used to be hundreds of "hax" or hacker clans (believe it or not) who featured lists of files you could download and unzip them into your Resource directory.. instant cheating!

And that is why programs like Kicker Helper were inevitable and necessary if the integrity of the game was to be preserved.

Without them, I have no doubt that far fewer people would play the games anymore, as many were fed up with the cheating and the arrogance of the cheaters.

I wouldn't call JK/MOTS cheating "hacking" although so many people have called it this over the years, the name has stuck. No reverse engineering or hex editing is done in order to cheat. No compiling, no code-breaking, etc. All that a person has to do is take any of the cog/dat files (which are in english) and modify certain values.

Most people that cheat I don't think do it "becuase they must win at all costs" or similar reasons, but rather "because they can" or they are simply bored, and with the anonymous nature of the internet, it's virtually consequence free (at worst, you'd be insulted and booted from the game).


Kurgan 02-11-2001 02:57 AM

Oh, forgot to say: "Force Long Post!" ; )

For a more professional article on the subject above, read this:

To go up in rank here you need to post 10 or more messages. Of course you only go up in rank once, and that's it, unless you are appointed by site staff or another Admin to be a moderator or Admin.


[This message has been edited by Kurgan (edited February 11, 2001).]

Bonfire 02-11-2001 06:18 PM

i didn't realize that it was so easy to cheat, but i have noticed that patchfiles (ie faster saber swings, some skins, other force powers etc)won't work unless all the players in the game have that perticular patch activated. why dosn't this work with cheats? in theory, arn't cheats that are downloaded or cog's or goo's etc that are altered work the same as patchfiles, that they would only work if everyone has them?

on a relativly unrelataed topic, has anyone gotten the double saber for MOTS to work?

your friendly neighbourhood Bonfire

Jedi SuperBuen 02-11-2001 08:33 PM

Very well said Kurgan!

The point is cheating in a multiplayer game takes away the fun of playing against people!

Isn't the point of multiplayer making the game more challenging?

You can do it your own way
Just as long as it's done just how I say...

Boba Rhett 02-11-2001 10:33 PM

Patches are the same as cheats. They both use cogs but the cheat ones have been specifically made to get past checksum. That means that other players don't have to have it

Tycho_Celchu 02-13-2001 12:53 AM

You don't have to do much to most cheats to get them past checksum. You just fiddle around with the choice cog, put it in a certain folder, and it doesn't even realize that you've changed anything, 'cause it reads the said cog from your hard disk instead of from the CD, just assuming that it's the same as everyone else's.

Kurgan 02-13-2001 07:58 AM


Patches are the same as cheats. They both use cogs but the cheat ones have been specifically made to get past checksum. That means that other players don't have to have it
No, not necessarily. A "patch" in JK/MotS terms refers to a Gob/Goo file. The early "patches" were not really patches, but hacks. Some of them got past the checksum, others did not.

Most games use the term "patch" to refer to a program or set of files released by the developers to fix bugs or shortcomings in the game as released. Sometimes patches of this sort also add new features or levels.

In the Jedi Knight Community however, when somebody says "patch" 9 times out of 10 they are not referring to the above, since JK has only one "patch" of this type, 1.01, a small one at that, which fixes a couple of minor bugs in JK only.

Patches of the generic "mod" sort can include all kinds of things, such as skinpacks (which normally do not include cog files). And just because a patch uses cogs, does not mean it passes the checksum.

99% of all non-cheat patches do not pass the checksum. 100% of all cheats DO. Most of the exceptions to the non-cheat rule were some of the first mods ever created for the game (then termed "hacks" for the game but not in the sense that they were meant to be cheats, later on the community tended to use the term "hack" simply to mean the USE of a cheat in multiplayer).

A "cheat" is intended to give specific a player an advantage over other players or grant them a shortcut to something they would normally have to earn in the game. That is why cheating is not allowed, because it ruins the balance of online play.

And a cheat does not require the use of COG to be effective either.

Yes, all MP cheats, by definition have to pass the checksum in order to work. If a cheat doesn't let you gain over other players, then it's not really a "cheat" (logically).

And no, I would not compare files that are deliberately designed to humiliate other players, crash games, and ruin the balance of a game in favor of one person the same as patches that improve gameplay, add variety and introduce MODS that change gameplay in a positive manner for all participants.

Most "patches" do not work at all unless all players have them installed. Cheats, on the other hand are designed with the impression that only the user has them, thus they are meant to be unfair.

Could a cheat be considered a "type of patch"? I suppose, but I wouldn't use the term, nor would I consider them identical.

And of course, there is a huge difference between somebody using a patch, and somebody abusing a patch in order to gain an unfair advantage in a multiplayer game.


[This message has been edited by Kurgan (edited February 13, 2001).]

Boba Rhett 02-13-2001 09:56 AM

All I have to say is, Force Long Post! ahahaahahahaaaahahahaaa....oh man am I tired......

Kurgan 02-13-2001 03:21 PM

(carves another notch into belt for that one...)

Jedi SuperBuen 02-14-2001 12:35 AM

Takes another aspirin for that one

You can do it your own way
Just as long as it's done just how I say...

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