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-   -   Hypocrits... (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=75921)

ShockV1.89 08-22-2002 11:07 PM

Hypocrits...
 
Well, I logged onto a server, and was playing for a while. All was well, when suddenly one of the hosting clan members began to poke me with his sabre. He'd walk up, put the sabre out just a bit, do 1 point of damage, then retract it. Repeat a few times.

I was low on shields, so every point counted to me. So I asked the offending player to stop, and when he wouldnt, I asked him to follow his own server rules. He claimed "I'm not attacking, I'm poking."
I responded "It's doing damage, it's an attack."
"But it only does one point of damage. It's not an attack."
"When you keep doing it, it does more than one point."

Eventually, one of the other clan members decided to run up to me and extend his sabre fully. My shields began trickling away. After waiting for him to stop, hopefully, and he wouldnt, I attack and eventually killed him. But he came back. Then he swung and killed me. "THATS an attack."

Goddamn hypocrits. They made a big ol deal about sabre off = peace, and then decide to pull that, claiming "It's not an attack" Bull...

People like that piss me off. They proclaim a rule, but only adhere to it when it's to their benefit. If it's more profitable/enjoyable to break that rulke, they do so, and create a lameass excuse like that. Jerks.

The clan was [OoS]

I was under an alias.

ShockV1.89

Rad Blackrose 08-22-2002 11:11 PM

I had a similar problem just last night with one of their clan members on the IDS server, Padame. She would use offensive force powers against people who did not have their saber out, an obvious violation against the rules. Needless to say, I went out of my way to humiliate the stupid bitch.

Psionic Jedi 08-22-2002 11:13 PM

While my better instincts counsel me to follow a policy of laissez-faire, there are a couple of 0oS Clan's statements I feel I cannot let pass. Some background is in order: 0oS Clan ignores the most basic ground rule of debate. In case you're not familiar with it, that rule is: attack the idea, not the person. I must ask that 0oS Clan's legates develop an alternative community, a cohesive and comprehensive underground with a charter to nourish children with good morals and self-esteem. I know they'll never do that, so here's an alternate proposal: They should, at the very least, back off and quit trying to put the prisoners in charge of running the prison. 0oS Clan says it's going to create a mass psychology of fear about an imminent terrorist threat some day. Is it out of its rash mind? The answer is fairly obvious when you consider that if I hear its attendants say, "0oS Clan's objectives prevent smallpox" one more time, I'm going to throw up. After all, everything I've said so far is by way of introduction to the key point I want to make in this letter. My key point is that the disingenuous nature of 0oS Clan's teachings distracts us from the real lessons we could learn from a rigorous critique of its accusations. Now that that's cleared up, I'll continue with what I was saying before, that its grievances are based on a technique I'm sure you've heard of. It's called "lying". Finally, whatever your thoughts or feelings about 0oS Clan are, I urge you to help me create a world in which cannibalism, stoicism, and revisionism are all but forgotten.

SeraphimII 08-22-2002 11:25 PM

What?!

Umm....

Ahhhhh...

(Thinks of a catchy rebutal to PJ's post)


Your Momma!

MuRaSaMuNe 08-23-2002 12:03 AM

While imature acts happen inbetween people you have to all know, it's just a game. Yes, this is wrong, against our rules and if we caught someone doing this in the server we would kick them. Not all members of this clan act the right way it doesn't mean our whole clan doesn't, bashing our clan on a message board isn't the best solution either. Take it up with us, go on our site or server and we will do what we can to punish this individual. It could have been an imitator, we get them quite frequently.

A very pissed off clanmate in OoS,
[ OoS ] Orgasmose

padame 08-23-2002 12:09 AM

Apoligy
 
I may speak for some or all of OoS, but personaly I am sorry for the way I acted in the server BlackRose, It was not cool i'll admit, but when a person (your self) begins the confrintation by kicking me off the ledges in ns_streets, I wouln't just sit there and allow my self to get kicked off by some nimrod who thinks he owns everything.

Please, think about your actions be for u make them happen, the conciquences may not turn out verry... Pleasing.


Thank you for reading this and, I speak for my whole clan, we are most sorry for the way we act at times.

Thanks again,
[OoS]Padame




p.s.
when you were acting like a moron didnt humiliate me, it effected your self much more.

OoSxDarkMinion 08-23-2002 12:15 AM

Sephiroth, that's a really immature reply to a serious complaint...

I assure you guys we're not hypocrites. Certain people in the clan tend to break the rules just because they can without getting kicked from the server...it's a problem. I apologize on behalf of OoS for this.

ShockV1.89 08-23-2002 12:23 AM

I've found the best way to get someone to change a situation is to expose it publicly. Tends to prompt quicker response times. But in any case...

The names of those who were most disruptive are [OoS] Obi2 :-) and [OoS] Diablo. Diablo was the main instigator, actually did the damaging and attacks. Obi2, the supposed admin (so he claims) supported him and backed him up, told me "if you dont like it, leave".

I do thank you for your response time. I didnt know of your website, or I may have posted there instead. Maybe not, but maybe. I should let everyone know that I am not accusing the entire clan of these actions. There are just a few that were being very disrtuptive, and this, in no way, reflects upon the OoS clan. Had they not taken action....

But they did, and I thank you for that.

BTW, I went in once more under another alias before I wrote this, and tried the poking trick on Diablo, just to see how he'd react. He grew very angry and began cursing at me, before DFAing me.

ShockV1.89

Kiddy 08-23-2002 01:07 AM

...
 
edited for innappropriate flaming. Please don't do this again. Thank you in advance.

ShockV1.89 08-23-2002 01:22 AM

Kiddy, how do you respond to me poking at Diablo and him growing angry at it? Was he justified, and I am not?

I dont like being poked with a sabre, I dont think its funny at all.

btw, Padame wasnt apoligizing to me.

Kiddy, ask yourself, would you talk like this to my face in real life?

ShockV1.89

Rad Blackrose 08-23-2002 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Psionic Jedi
While my better instincts counsel me to follow a policy of laissez-faire, there are a couple of 0oS Clan's statements I feel I cannot let pass. Some background is in order: 0oS Clan ignores the most basic ground rule of debate. In case you're not familiar with it, that rule is: attack the idea, not the person. I must ask that 0oS Clan's legates develop an alternative community, a cohesive and comprehensive underground with a charter to nourish children with good morals and self-esteem. I know they'll never do that, so here's an alternate proposal: They should, at the very least, back off and quit trying to put the prisoners in charge of running the prison. 0oS Clan says it's going to create a mass psychology of fear about an imminent terrorist threat some day. Is it out of its rash mind? The answer is fairly obvious when you consider that if I hear its attendants say, "0oS Clan's objectives prevent smallpox" one more time, I'm going to throw up. After all, everything I've said so far is by way of introduction to the key point I want to make in this letter. My key point is that the disingenuous nature of 0oS Clan's teachings distracts us from the real lessons we could learn from a rigorous critique of its accusations. Now that that's cleared up, I'll continue with what I was saying before, that its grievances are based on a technique I'm sure you've heard of. It's called "lying". Finally, whatever your thoughts or feelings about 0oS Clan are, I urge you to help me create a world in which cannibalism, stoicism, and revisionism are all but forgotten.
Translation:

Hi, I go by the JKII screen name of Carth, who is one of the admins of the 0oS server, and I go out of my way to make myself sound smart and instead talk out of my ass, which 95% of this post implies. The other 5% gives that nice little added smell to it.

So this must be your "smart guy" template.

And Padame, apology accepted :D

MysticSpade 08-23-2002 12:03 PM

In my opinion as an ADMIN of a server if you have rules posted as your MTOD if you do not abide by those rules you have no reason to even be in the server. Most rules are fairly simple to follow if sabers down you don't attack. If someone's typing you don't attack. But to be perfectly honest if someone was Kick-Whoring on the ns-streets map and knockin me off I wouldn't poke you with the saber i'd kill you with it no pre-emptive strike or nothin I'd run up on you when you weren't lookin and kill you. So everything you do in a game will come back on you whether it be good or bad.

FatalStrike 08-23-2002 12:18 PM

I haven't run into any OoS members but judging by your posts you guys seem to be a bunch of sh!theads.

You act like fools and you get mad when people call you on it.

Quote:

Not all members of this clan act the right way it doesn't mean our whole clan doesn't, bashing our clan on a message board isn't the best solution either.
I was willing to take your word for it here but then...

Quote:

...some nimrod who thinks he owns everything....Thank you for reading this and, I speak for my whole clan, we are most sorry for the way we act at times....when you were acting like a moron didnt humiliate me, it effected your self much more.
This person admits they were out of line, says they speak for your clan but continues insulting Blackrose anyway. If you want to apologize you should apologize and thats it.

That's like saying "yeah I'm sorry....F^cker"

Also this poking stuff that is being complained about, my rule is you come near me with your saber up, I attack you. I don't care if you are just walking around doing nothing, saber up = enemy.

Also if you do anything in a server that is seen by me as attacking when your saber is down, I will attack you everytime I see you no matter what. If you want to have the saber down rule respected then you must only attack when your saber is up. You start with lightning or kicking with saber down EVEN once and you have given up your right to walk in peace.

These fools that just go on-line to mess and then turn around and get pissed when you mess with them make me sick.

D.L. 08-23-2002 12:24 PM

*yawns*

This is why I go online with friends and not some sad ass clans.

MysticSpade 08-23-2002 01:28 PM

My clan that i'm in IRON Brigade plays fair no-matter what the cost even if we lose the whole match but we stand for fairness.

Catharsis 08-23-2002 01:34 PM

Quote:

Translation:

Hi, I go by the JKII screen name of Carth, who is one of the admins of the 0oS server, and I go out of my way to make myself sound smart and instead talk out of my ass, which 95% of this post implies. The other 5% gives that nice little added smell to it.

So this must be your "smart guy" template.
No, actually this is my board name, not "Psionic Jedi." Please get your facts straight, and at least spell my name right before assuming things and insulting me. If you have some issue with me, feel free to talk to me on MSN and we can talk it over; don't just take pot-shots at me for something I haven't even said.

The generator this was probably produced on was a lower-level version of the one found at thespark.com (http://toy.thespark.com/paper_writer/). I forget the actual site that this was created on, but it's the same premise. Psionic Jedi thought he'd lighten up this thread with humor by inputting the OoS clan name into the generator. And it IS funny if you understand that 100% of it has nothing to do with the subject at hand, and that it intends to use as many obscure references and "ass-talking" as possible.

Again, I feel that this character attack was unnecessary, and any problem you have with me should be brought up with me, not exhibitioned in a public forum.

-Cath

Taebaek 08-23-2002 03:01 PM

Although I do not support the behavior 100% of time with 100% of our members (we have over 50), I will say this:

"I was low on shields, so every point counted to me. "

This is a game. People play games to have fun. I would apologize that someone elses idea of fun does not agree with yours, but that, in itself, not worthy of a true apology. I do, however, apologize for the preception of hypocricy that you encountered on our server; if rules are broken (by members or non-members), there should be some recourse/warning. And while I am in the "apologetic" mood, I must say that I find it "sorry" that someone would feel this way (I was low on shields, so every point counted to me.) over their virtual shields, virtual health, and virtual standing in a non-RPG FPS game. Not all personalities can be accounted for or considered when hosting a server in which the participants are in search of entertainment and fun.

However, my ultimate goal in forming the OoS and in promoting JKII in various circles is to create many levels of enjoyment and competition: to the beginner wanting to pass some time, to the advanced player in search of elite competition. Hopefully, when passing through our servers, you can find a place in this strata to enjoy your time with us. If not, Tæk Cær...

[OoS] Tæbæk
www.jkii.com

FatalStrike 08-23-2002 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taebaek
Although I do not support the behavior 100% of time with 100% of our members (we have over 50), I will say this:

"I was low on shields, so every point counted to me. "

This is a game. People play games to have fun. I would apologize that someone elses idea of fun does not agree with yours, but that, in itself, not worthy of a true apology. I do, however, apologize for the preception of hypocricy that you encountered on our server; if rules are broken (by members or non-members), there should be some recourse/warning. And while I am in the "apologetic" mood, I must say that I find it "sorry" that someone would feel this way (I was low on shields, so every point counted to me.) over their virtual shields, virtual health, and virtual standing in a non-RPG FPS game. Not all personalities can be accounted for or considered when hosting a server in which the participants are in search of entertainment and fun.

However, my ultimate goal in forming the OoS and in promoting JKII in various circles is to create many levels of enjoyment and competition: to the beginner wanting to pass some time, to the advanced player in search of elite competition. Hopefully, when passing through our servers, you can find a place in this strata to enjoy your time with us. If not, Tæk Cær...

[OoS] Tæbæk
www.jkii.com

Another "I'm sorry....F^cker" apology.

Is your whole clan to proud to just say "I'm sorry" without adding a few insults to go with it.

Just apologize to the man and move on.

Kiddy 08-23-2002 03:36 PM

...
 
How does my post constitute as a flame and FlameStrike's doesn't (even though he frequently used the f-word)?

Oh I know! This forum is biased! You're all a bunch of raging n00bs who have no real life so you try to create some stuck-up little society in a video game in order to make yourselves feel accepted! Well, make sure to come on our server again, so I can show you what jk2 is REALLY about while you choke on my saber!

And Shock...frankly, in real life... I haven't experienced a situation where somone poked at another person with thier "lightsaber" and then that person got upset and "murdered" them. But then within a matter of seconds, the dead person is revived and comes back to "murder" the other person.

You have just been scratched by the ferocious Kiddy!

Kstar__2 08-23-2002 04:02 PM

that basterd!


lets start a "fair play" campaign for JKII, that will teach them!

[serious note]
no really, i think it's a good idea, put "FP" (fair play ,for the ones that don't understand) behind your name.
[/serious note]


[humor note]
now lets all sing the fair play song!
fair play, fair play,.................
[/humor note]

FatalStrike 08-23-2002 04:04 PM

Re: ...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Kiddy
How does my post constitute as a flame and FlameStrike's doesn't (even though he frequently used the f-word)?
Because all I am trying to say is just apologize or don't. I'm not on here flaming people because I don't think their complaint is valid.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kiddy
Oh I know! This forum is biased! You're all a bunch of raging n00bs who have no real life so you try to create some stuck-up little society in a video game in order to make yourselves feel accepted! Well, make sure to come on our server again, so I can show you what jk2 is REALLY about while you choke on my saber!

Again with the mindless Flaming. "choke on my saber?" how original :rolleyes:


Why are you even posting here. The thread is about people enforcing rules that they themselves don't follow. In this case it happens to be a clan in particular that has been doing it so they are being questioned about their actions. You don't belong to the clan or care about the actual topic. You seem hell bent on simply insulting people for demanding fair play.

I think the issue of this thread is very much a valid concern being that it seems to be happening all over the place. Clans set rules for their servers and refuse to follow their own rules.

I am questioning the fact that this clan even while admiting that they act this way refuse to give a real apology. Then they question why someone would make a thread and embarass them by telling the whole community about their behavior. Wel its obvious that they and you (a former member) are all about being jerks to everyone and nothing else.

ShockV1.89 08-23-2002 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taebaek
Although I do not support the behavior 100% of time with 100% of our members (we have over 50), I will say this:

"I was low on shields, so every point counted to me. "

This is a game. People play games to have fun. I would apologize that someone elses idea of fun does not agree with yours, but that, in itself, not worthy of a true apology. I do, however, apologize for the preception of hypocricy that you encountered on our server; if rules are broken (by members or non-members), there should be some recourse/warning. And while I am in the "apologetic" mood, I must say that I find it "sorry" that someone would feel this way (I was low on shields, so every point counted to me.) over their virtual shields, virtual health, and virtual standing in a non-RPG FPS game. Not all personalities can be accounted for or considered when hosting a server in which the participants are in search of entertainment and fun.

However, my ultimate goal in forming the OoS and in promoting JKII in various circles is to create many levels of enjoyment and competition: to the beginner wanting to pass some time, to the advanced player in search of elite competition. Hopefully, when passing through our servers, you can find a place in this strata to enjoy your time with us. If not, Tæk Cær...

[OoS] Tæbæk
www.jkii.com

So Taebaek, I suppose the fact that, after I asked him to stop, Diablo held his sabre on me until my shields went from 75 to 0 and my health to 95, isnt worthy of an apology? I'd say something that pushes ones shields down to nothing is certainly an attack, especially when you consider that I moved away from him multiple times, repeatedly asking him to stop, before I attacked.

It's not the shields that annoyed me. I can easily replace those, as well as the health. It was the hypocracy of the whole thing. These very clan members were, just 10 minutes prior to this incident, flaming someone for attacking sabredown.

Whatever...

ShockV1.89

Catharsis 08-23-2002 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FatalStrike


Another "I'm sorry....F^cker" apology.

Is your whole clan to proud to just say "I'm sorry" without adding a few insults to go with it.

Just apologize to the man and move on.

FatalStrike, Taebaek is saying that although he is apologetic for the member (and by extension, the clan) unintentionally offending the person, he does not see sufficient reason for an apology. His post by no means contains insults; instead, it offers his viewpoint on the validity of "virtual shields" and whatnot. Pride is not a concern, and if you knew Taebaek, you would see that he is far from a proud person. The question here is not whether there should be an apology or not (because several were given, albeit with opinions thrown in... leading into my next point): it is a matter of why the apology should be given.

If I were to accidentally step on someone's shoe while walking down the street and he were to get into a rage over me "smudging his pumas" (thx to Chris Rock :P), of course I'd apologize. But I also have a right to question (based on his size, ability to hurt me) why the apology is/needs to be given (this would most likely be a silent question). An apology is warranted mainly by his being offended, but as Taebaek points out, is it really such a big deal? It happens from time to time, and it is, granted, annoying, but is it a reason to get up in arms?

What would you consider a "real apology"? You keep asking for it over and over again, and if people give apologies that don't meet your criterion for apologies, you write them off as "I'm sorry... F*cker" apologies. Not everyone's idea of an apology is similar to yours (which I'm guessing is just a "Sorry for the offense"-and-nothing-more type apology), and people will often question why they are saying "I'm sorry" when saying it. It's not pride, it's not a character flaw, it's not even spite: it's the markings of a non-conformist, inquisitive mindset (and I'm not saying you are conformist). If you have a problem with their opinions, and cannot respect their thoughts (namely Taebaek's, since I do not at all advocate Kiddy's flaming. He's not even a member), you are being counter-productive to everyone getting to the heart of the matter.

I have posted no opinions on the issue, and as I have already (in a roundabout way) apologized to the offended (Shock and Rad) by trying to find a constructive way to settle this matter: no, this is neither an "I'm sorry" or an "I'm sorry... F*cker" post. Just an analysis.

-Cath

*Note: I personally get kind of annoyed when people burn away my shields, but I usually run away and go heal up. It's a few seconds of my time to get the shield, but that's a few seconds that would have otherwise been spent standing around. Being killed saber-down I pretty much abhor, though. With that said, I ask that you not criticize the ideas contained in this post as opinions of my own. They are a translation of Taebaek's viewpoint on the matter, as an attempt to better convey his ideas and his reason for posting.*

ShockV1.89 08-23-2002 05:59 PM

Again, my point was not the shields. Like you said, its annoying but not a capital crime. It was the hypocrisy that angered me. Just see my above post.

And thank you for the "round-about" apology, Carth.

Oh, and Kiddy? That was honest advice. Ignore, for a moment, the incidents in the server. Would you really be willing to call someone a stuck-up prick in real life simply because you dont agree with them on something? Seriously now...

Treat people online the same way you treat them in reality, life will go much easier on you. If you dont, well.... it's sorta cowardly. And if this is how you treat people in reality, well...

ShockV1.89

FatalStrike 08-23-2002 06:21 PM

You can gift wrap it any way you want but anyone has a problem with my clans behavior and I either say "STFU" and make a point of beating them to death everytime I see them, or I say "Sorry about that, I'll see what I can find out about what <clan member>'s problem is"

Its one way or the other.

The problem is people want to have it both ways, they want to apologize and save face at the same time.

What should have been said was.

"sorry man, I will talk to <clan member> and let him know how you feel"

I respect people who make up there mind. Staying on the fence and trying to go both ways has always been a clear sign of mental weakness.

Kiddy 08-23-2002 10:39 PM

...
 
Yes, I would call someone a stuck-up prick in real life if I felt they deserved the remark. In this sort of unserious situation, I would probably say it with a smile implying no offence, but reminding them that thier actions were, well... stuck-up and prick-like=)

Kiddy

Garath 08-24-2002 04:55 AM

Quote:

If I were to accidentally step on someone's shoe while walking down the street and he were to get into a rage over me "smudging his pumas" (thx to Chris Rock :P), of course I'd apologize
hmm.. if I'm reading this right, the analogy should be this..

'If I were to accidentally step on someone's toe, then continue to stomp on his toes while he askes me to stop to which I reply that I'm not stepping on his toes, I'm stepping on his shoes, should I question why he wants me to apologize?'


from what I'm reading shock asked for him to stop and got a smart ass response. /shrug.. imo that's rude regardless if its a 'virtual world' or not.

My advice, don't go to their server again.. no reason to.. plenty of good servers out there with good respectful people..

ShockV1.89 08-24-2002 01:28 PM

That is just about the best way I've heard anyone put it, Garath. Awesome.

ShockV1.89

OmegaKnight 08-24-2002 01:49 PM

chill
 
just chill about this...whoever it was that was doing this was only goofing around. We are just as much a fun loving clan as we are respectful...whoever did this to you..perhaps they should have stopped when asked...but it was only in fun that they did it anyway. Just chill...it's really not that big a deal. And what those 2 people did does not represent the whole clan so don't bad mouth the rest of us for their actions...that is quite unfair. Well that's about all the wisdom i have to share with you today...good day gentlmen

padame 08-25-2002 04:51 AM

For god's sake
 
You guys, Simply put.


Some person was draining shield/attackin saber down, whoop de freakin DOO

Drop it, its O.K. some ppl dont care about walkin a few sec.s away to get another shield pack.

Also, this flaiming buisnes is really irratating, if you seriously need to drag something this simple on for so damn long, u SHOULD be shot.

Let it rest.
[OoS]Padame :amidala:



P.S. ShockV1.89 if you are intentionaly spelling "Cath" wrong, you are a moron, if its som1 else, you probly are still spellin it wrong. :P

ShockV1.89 08-25-2002 01:46 PM

Quote:

Also, this flaiming buisnes is really irratating, if you seriously need to drag something this simple on for so damn long, u SHOULD be shot.
Quote:

P.S. ShockV1.89 if you are intentionaly spelling "Cath" wrong, you are a moron, if its som1 else, you probly are still spellin it wrong. :P
[sarcasm]Yeah, this flaming business is really irritating, I dont know why its being dragged on... [/sarcasm] It's either a typo, or I saw that Rad spelled it "Carth" and that was the first thing that came to mind. If you're so offended by it, you are a moron.

Again, someone needs clarification: I DID NOT CARE ABOUT THE SHIELDS. IT WAS THE FACT THAT THEY JUST CALLED SABRE DOWN=PEACE, AND THEN ATTACKED ME SABRE DOWN THAT GOT ME MAD. Damnit, why is this so hard for some people to understand? Allow me to quote myself, for further clarification...


Quote:

It's not the shields that annoyed me. I can easily replace those, as well as the health. It was the hypocracy of the whole thing. These very clan members were, just 10 minutes prior to this incident, flaming someone for attacking sabredown.
ShockV1.89

Rad Blackrose 08-26-2002 11:18 PM

I am very, VERY close to retracting my appology acceptance after one of the actions of an 0oS member (Obi2) on not their server, but on another's server. Coming on and asking an admin to kick me is not advisable, ESPECIALLY when MY brother happens to be in the same clan and the person doing the kicking happens to be the premo donna of the entire clan. Either you tell him to cool his guns or I start pulling strings.

Xombie 08-27-2002 10:18 PM

Let's guess the average age of the [OoS] clan.
Or hell, we could just roll a six-sided-die instead.

Darth Kaan 08-28-2002 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by D.L.
*yawns*

This is why I go online with friends and not some sad ass clans.


Have to agree with the above statement.


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