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-   -   A little rant.... (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=77513)

ShockV1.89 09-04-2002 10:59 PM

A little rant....
 
Just a little one.

I cannot stand it when I look at a nicely pinging server, see it has four players in it, hop in, and see four bots running away from me. Damnit, when I see 4/12, I expect to see four HUMAN players. Thats why it's MULTIplayer, people. Not so I can say "Oh, cool! Four bots! A whole four bots! Shucks, that looks like fun!" No, HUMAN players. Dont make me aste my time by waiting for my slowass computer to load up your server only to see your damn bots! ARG!!!!

I am done now.

ShockV1.89

[JHQ]Inty 09-05-2002 12:46 AM

It's more your fault for not being observant enough. If someone's ping is 0 or lower their either the server(bots) or the host; but the host's ping does not stay 0 the entire time, it'll fluctuate between 0 and a very low number.

ShockV1.89 09-05-2002 01:18 AM

I dont usually check server status before I enter the server. I just see 4/12, and I go in. It's annoying to have to check to see who's in there.

Once I'm there, I know right away who's a bot and who isnt.

ShockV1.89

acdcfanbill 09-05-2002 01:22 AM

using outside prog's like qtracker i know give the names of the players, therefore its easy to descerne between bots (luke, tavion) and real people (padawan, imleetndasheet)... :D

Luc Solar 09-05-2002 01:32 AM

What is it with those bots anyway? :mad:

Can you actually *fight* them at some point? ...I tried out Promod Beta 2 a while ago; made a server and spawned 2 bots (Jedi Master level.)

Then I went to ArtifeX's site to read the "manual".

When I finally got back to the game fifteen minutes later, I was still in the lead with 0 kills. :(

And no, I wasn't hiding in some dark corner...I was standing in the middle of the huge opening in Bespin streets..

So..what's wrong with those bots? They don't want to fight? Is that it? And if so - what the hell are they doing in this game?? (besides running backwards)

Is there some trick that I don't know of? Do I have to taunt them (or something) so that they'll get pissed off and finally attack/&fight me?

I feel your pain Shock. :(

taboo 09-05-2002 01:48 AM

The bots play rather defensively, which is especially noticeable if you're in a saber only server. If you're saber is drawn, it can be quite some time before a bot will manage to kill you.

acdcfanbill 09-05-2002 02:58 AM

when ever a bot starts to back up, i just back away from them, if there is enough room, they usually come at me again... something that works for me anyway...

Psionic Jedi 09-06-2002 12:24 AM

Bottom line: MP Bots are t3h shiet!

I wish we could import SP NPCs into MP. My god to have a real Tavion running around and lightning you if you draw a gun and grip you off bespin would be so excellent!

BTW On promod beta 2 note: I've always thought bots would own at it since they have auto-aim, and promod centers around keeping your aim (if you have ever seen a bot's aim in spec mode, it's VERY close and usually aims for the head). But it seems they keep their jitterbuggish personalities... :rolleyes:

Kstar__2 09-06-2002 07:40 AM

whenever i play agains a bot, it is just using lightning all the time:(

ShockV1.89 09-06-2002 08:56 AM

Or mindtrick...over and over and over... :disaprove :disaprove :disaprove

ShockV1.89

Jedi Spy 09-06-2002 10:50 AM

dont fight back if u grip them to death :(

/Spy

FatalStrike 09-06-2002 11:17 AM

Seriuosly if someone wants to make a Mod that makes the Bots act tough mean and fight like Demons I would be down with it.

Have some programmed sayings like..

"You suck Noob, I'm a bot and I still owned your pathetic Human ass!!"

Make them fight incredibly well and for the love of God make them aggressive!! I hate this backwards running lame bots we have now.

I would like to see a team of Bots that could play CTF well and know how to play their positions, that would be great to practice with.

Darth Kaan 09-08-2002 01:59 PM

I can't remember the exact names because once I used them I didn't need them anymore, but there are two different BOT editing utilities at JKII.net and at JK2files. With them you can speed up their reflexes, agility, give them perfect aim and increase their hate factor which makes them very aggressive.

I remade new bot files for all my favorite models and skins and have a nice collection of them that are much more aggressive and higher skilled. If you really want improved Bots to play against get the utilities and use them.

Homosexual Ewok 09-08-2002 02:20 PM

The bots on JK2 are some of the crappiest I've ever seen.
Quake2/3 had plenty of user made bots like the Eraser bot and Laker bot that really did fight pretty close to the way human opponents do. I'm surprised that after 90 million "My version of JK2" type mods no one has made some decent community made bots.

Darth Kaan 09-09-2002 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Homosexual Ewok
The bots on JK2 are some of the crappiest I've ever seen.
Quake2/3 had plenty of user made bots like the Eraser bot and Laker bot that really did fight pretty close to the way human opponents do. I'm surprised that after 90 million "My version of JK2" type mods no one has made some decent community made bots.

Probably because the Bot maker is so easy to use and skins/models are to much a matter of preference. Here is the link to the botmaker utility.

Jedi Spy 09-09-2002 07:43 PM

I think its alot harder to write a bot for jk2 than it is for q2 or cs. I mean Point and shoot is alot easier to write than various combos with a lightsaber at different times....there would be a womp load of stuff to do to make a REALLY good jk2 bot and i dont think anyone is sad enough to do so :)

Datheus 09-09-2002 08:41 PM

Well.. bots have waypoints... so they're gonna take that waypoint to get to you, in bespin, they won't jump that little lip.. they'll take the stairs :|

The best way I see is to get in the middle of their path, and run into them, to get your sabers to touch, then generally the bot will make a brief assault

Homosexual Ewok 09-09-2002 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darth Kaan


Probably because the Bot maker is so easy to use and skins/models are to much a matter of preference. Here is the link to the botmaker utility.

I got to check that out, I've always wanted a bot that does stuff humans do like saber throw+pull and the likes.
Not sure if that app could accomplish that but it's a start.
Thanks.

Darth Kaan 09-10-2002 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Homosexual Ewok

I got to check that out, I've always wanted a bot that does stuff humans do like saber throw+pull and the likes.
Not sure if that app could accomplish that but it's a start.
Thanks.

The force powers and saber color are also things that can be set when making the bot. It is an easy interface....pretty much point and click. You can set up their powers just like you do for yourself for playing online.

A few tips, Reflex is set to 500 as default, lower it to at least 300. Also give them perfect aim and a hate factor of 10, and of course ally them with no one. There are a few other things as well, but a little playing with the utility is all it takes.

I have a few really tough bots, Vader, Maul, Wicked and Lord Rive. Be glad to email them to you to compare settings while learning the utility.

Dale7007 09-10-2002 09:06 PM

:violin: bWahahhaa, asdadf

ASk 09-11-2002 08:02 AM

Umm...the basic behaviour of the bots can't be changed with the .bot and .jkb files. They are just a config which makes the bot prefer certain things over others, not change the way he fights. Unless you are willing to dig through about 600kb of AI code and rewrite it, with possible methods including neural networks (but that would require literally years of training), the basic behaviour of the bots will not change.

Darth Kaan 09-11-2002 10:43 AM

I understand bots are bound to using the bot routes, but that is a navigational thing for the maps. What I was talking about was making them more of a challenge when fighting. Ask....as to your statement the bots basic behavior cannot be changed....well, no you cant change the routes they take, but as far as their behavior goes, you could not be more wrong.

Using the bot utility to make them better, I know for a fact bots can be vastly improved. You can design the bot to have any characteristics you want it to have, be 3x more aggressive, what strength in specific force powers and what weapons it uses the best. It's reflexes can be improved and it can be given perfect aim, which means it does not miss.

I even made one bot an Absorb/Saber throw whore, to practice against for a certain reason. No, they are not perfect or like fighting a l337 human opponents, but they sure are a whole lot better than the out of the box bots.

ASk 09-11-2002 11:10 AM

Darth Kaan:

The code determines the usage of the forces in various situations. The code determines when the bot uses a particular weapon (something like "if he is weak and up close, switch to bryar pistol" only far more expanded). The code determines how the bot swings the saber, how he blocks and when he blocks. The .jkb file only sets minor behaviors, the reaction time and the accuracy for example. But this won't make a bot to throw a saber and manipulate it for it to hit from behind. This won't make a bot fight any smarter..more lethal perhaps.

The strategy of the fight can't be changed without modifying the source code...plenty of it.

Darth Kaan 09-11-2002 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ASk
Darth Kaan:

The code determines the usage of the forces in various situations. The code determines when the bot uses a particular weapon (something like "if he is weak and up close, switch to bryar pistol" only far more expanded). The code determines how the bot swings the saber, how he blocks and when he blocks. The .jkb file only sets minor behaviors, the reaction time and the accuracy for example. But this won't make a bot to throw a saber and manipulate it for it to hit from behind. This won't make a bot fight any smarter..more lethal perhaps.

The strategy of the fight can't be changed without modifying the source code...plenty of it.

Whatever. I think your being anal and reading way to much into this. Anyway, I KNOW the bot utility works and allows you to make bots that are way more of a challenge than the ones out of the box.
It does allow you to choose what specific powers a bot uses, dark, light or neutral, what strength, their saber color, hate factor, reflex ratio, if they are al;igned with any other bot/character, perfect aim or not, regularity of their chat ability and a few other things. This all changes their basic behavior and I will keep using them (the enhanced ones) as will at least 30 others I know of.


Have a nice day!

Guardian Omega 09-11-2002 09:29 PM

It says bot not defined when I tried to load my bot in game......


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