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-   -   Abuse of "saber down" (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=80444)

Mr Wolf 10-04-2002 06:43 PM

Abuse of "saber down"
 
Hi guys,

As you all know, It has now become general practice to not kill people who have their saber down.

Personally I generally stick to this rule, although I completely disagree with it as too many people are abusing it.

The saber down rule, as I see it, is to let people who are playing on FFA, travel to a place to meet someone for a duel. Or to show that they are open for duelling, which is fine in my book.

However I am seeing far too many people who are taking advantage of honerable people like ourselves by attacking while their saber is down.

For example, You see someone, saber down, so you dont attack them and run on past, as you do they push you off a ledge, or lightning you from behind, or, one annoying git I had the displeasure of fighting kept kicking, with his saber down.

Of course some people simply use this tactic to let you get close, then open with a powerfull strike.

One guy on a bespin server last night stood, saber down, on the shield spawn spot. I wanted the shield as much as he did but I cant get at it without breaking my honor code and killing him.

Anyway, bringing my rant to a close, does anyone agree with me, or do you think these are valid tactics?

Thanks.

Datheus 10-04-2002 07:14 PM

Depends.. on more... private (although still public) servers.. all you need to do is alert an admin, and that person will most likely get kicked/banned... on more public public servers..(ie Infinite-Fragging, DarkSide, whathaveyou) Never put your saber down, and always attack anyone, someone who puts their saber down in a TRUE FFA sever like that is a moron

On more social/duel FFA servers (which arn't generally listed on the internet listing)... just tell an admin if someone is screwing off like that, because it's most likely against the rules of the server

a pizza 10-04-2002 07:24 PM

Thats a good rule......If people would actually use it that would be nice.

NerfYoda 10-04-2002 07:35 PM

A camper with his saber down is still a camper. You can force push him out of the way. :)

Mr Wolf 10-04-2002 07:36 PM

I generally go by the rule "Fool me once shame on you, Fool me twice shame on me."

I will give the person the benefit of the doubt, until they attack, then I make a point of relentlessly hunting the ejit until they realise that they will die if they power their saber down.

However, often they complain about me killing them, because their saber is down!

As for notifying the admin, I am usually too adrenalised while playing to be arsed contacting anyone, so I prefer to settle it in game.

Nerf, it is hard to push someone with their back to the wall standing in an alcove:confused:
I dont use pull.

Toonces 10-04-2002 07:53 PM

heh, one solution would be to play Dark Side and simply move him with grip :) Alough that's of no use to you if your either playine light side, or playing on nf (yuck) servers

Mr Wolf 10-04-2002 08:10 PM

Nah, I play light side, I dont like the dark powers.

Sometimes I will run at them doing a heavy downstrike to get them to react, but then purposefully miss at the last moment.

That usually gets them to raise their saber.

Datheus 10-04-2002 08:27 PM

Or just shoot them in the foot with the Byrar, people will always pull out their saber...

Or a rocket laucher, yikes

Homosexual Ewok 10-04-2002 10:58 PM

It is the same as "type killing".

Want to type?
Find a corner and face it.

Problems with settings?
Same.

You pop up a chat icon or drop the console down to stall and heal or avoid a hit, you deserved to be killed.


I always loved how some people would type just long enough in a FF duel to *glug-*glug double heal.

If you have a duel and just finished, turn your friggen saber off and *walk away.

Don't make a mad dash for health and the second someone assumes you are playing tries to attack you, flip the saber off and whine about it.

thehomicidalegg 10-05-2002 02:49 AM

Look at This :D

Ariel_Angel 10-05-2002 05:32 AM

DJ you putz
 
bah you only do that cause you can't beat anyone fair and square :P


aka Silent Whisper from the Jedi Academy

MrCrusher 10-05-2002 09:39 AM

Depends on ones mood I suppose. Some nights I kill everything in sight regardless of where they've stuffed there saber.

Srikin Talilles 10-08-2002 08:02 PM

i only play duel. FFA and CTF is not any fun for me. When i duel i just wait, walking around, waiting for someone to battle. I just put saber down. But some people can be such a$$ holes. This one guy, while i was typing decided to take advantage of this oppurtunity. He drew his saber and tried to kill me. Of course my quick thinking allowed me to escape just in time. But some people do take advantage of waiting then opening up their saber. DIRTY SITH BASTARDS. :p

Lightsaberboy 10-08-2002 08:08 PM

i only respect that rule of saber down if the server has specific rules about it. Otherwise if i see a guy standing there no saber, i kill him. Besides, that rule is only used mostly in saber only servers or clan servers. Usually in large weapon ffa servers, i kill anyone. anyone who whines that their saber down, i just say "As Vader said, 'You are unwise to lower your defenses!'"

Kurgan 10-09-2002 01:24 AM

My advice...
 
Much like (and if you'll pardon the Trek reference) the Klingons who switch to swords and bat'leths when attacking a battle station populated by soldiers with energy weapons, the tactic of turning off your saber or avoiding attacking an armed opponent to show "honor" is foolish, and if you get killed doing it... guess what.. you deserve to lose!

(the above example btw, is well known in the Trek community. What some see as the epitome of honor, military strategists see for what it is, a foolish, borderline suicidal gesture!).

If somebody has their saber selected, but turned off, they are STILL DANGEROUS. They can still not only attack with the force and use items (unless it's during a saber challenge), but the instant they press the "attack" button their saber will spring to life ready to strike.

So IMHO, to give a person with their saber turned off some kind of protection by not attacking them, is to effectively give them a "free hit" on you.

By the same token, to turn off your saber, and expect others NOT to attack you is foolish. You might as well keep your blade out, and at the ready. After all, the auto-blocking powers of the saber are ZERO when your saber is turned off, and so somebody could easily snipe you and do full damage.

If you're smart, you'll never underestimate somebody with your saber off, and you won't turn your saber off and expect people to stay away from you.*

Notions of honor have a place in Role Playing Games about honor, not in a First Person Shooter, or in a competative multiplayer contest. People may disagree, but that's the way it is, unless the server admin wants to shoe-horn his players into that mould. That's fine, but it's a set of handicaps that players have to willingly accept, it can't be forced on anyone.

To avoid falling victim to "jerks" who don't follow the honor codes you do, simply stay on your toes, type only when you're dead or in spectator mode, and don't whine when you do get caught "off guard."



* Unless of course the rules of the server you joined explicitly state that you are to follow these so-called "honorable protocols." I just assume that they are NOT default on most game servers.

FatalStrike 10-09-2002 10:02 AM

In 1.04 "hunting" someone take longer then I have to waste on a noob. So if someone plays cheap by standing around saber down and taking cheap shots - Mind Trick + DFA - works nicely.

As for people standing on Shield spots, PM them to move please, if they say no - kill them.

THe whole "Jedi" code thing gets kind of old, if you don't want to get hit get out of the way.

Haemon 10-13-2002 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by thehomicidalegg
Look at This :D
very nice

Anyway, I was in this server killing everything I could get my hands on and after I kept killing this one guy with his saber down because he wouldn't shut up with the "saber down=peace, you're a noob" crap I challenged him. After killing him several times in duels he just said I was lucky(he had a 50 ping and I had a 200). The moral of this story is if are going to walk around with your saber off talking sh*t then at least be an OK fighter.

DeTRiTiC-iQ 10-14-2002 05:36 AM

I play Guns CTF almost exclusively, somehow i've managed to go several months without this happening, until yesterday that is:

Quote:

I'm base defender, hence my job is to kill enemy players in and around my base. An Enemy enters the base with saber down and proceeds towards the flag spot. As you can expect, being the nice base defender I am. I kill him. He very quickly says "lamer" and quotes "No Tipping Killing, No Saber Out Killing, No Gun Abuse". At which point I promptly say "wtf?"

Anyway he does the same thing again, so again I feel obliged to kill him, he may have saber down but he's a threat to the team. So again he says "lamer" and quotes his special "rules".

At this point i'm thinking, "ok i'll just see what he does to prove my point", so I hold of shooting him, lo and behold he makes the entire flag run with saber down.
As you can see, the not attacking people with saber down is a completely suicidal gesture in CTF.

Although i'm not entirely sure which is worse, playing CTF with saber down in a vain attempt to stop people killing you, or having bound keys for "Lamer" and "No Tipping Killing, No Saber Off killing, No Gun Abuse".

Matt-Liell 10-14-2002 09:49 AM

its a good rule that was started so servers could be more fun so lets obey it! an example (which has happened alot to me by the way!) is im chating to a guy, to invite him to a duel or tell him about my skins etc. and some newb comes up and he cant do any moves so he just keeps slicing, so i have to stop in mi senctance, force lightning him, grip him and drop him off the edge and he gets mad and i have to yell at him and say "DONT BE STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:" so please, if u r ever in this situation let the guy be!:) some people advertise their skins and stuff on servers, so listen instead of being stupid and u might get a skin! possibly from me!

Psionic Jedi 10-15-2002 10:49 PM

My rule regarding Saber Down-ers, in duels especially, is to always keep your distance.

Especially in 1.04, where everyone is overeager to initiate a lunge in the beginning of a duel to gain a headstart. I always stay at little less than two player model heights away when bowing, lest they try to lunge or initiate a fast attack.

Not only is this "respectful" to someone's private space, but it also prevents any strikes when your defense is down.

Deactivated Sabers should be regarded as dangerous as any gun; just cause you're holding it and not "firing" it doesn't mean it isn't as volatile a second later when you pull the trigger.

acdcfanbill 10-16-2002 12:26 AM

just because I stick to the not attacking those with their saber down rule, doesnt mean i trust any schmo who has their saber down. You have to pay attention and watch yourself, if you get killed, its your fault. :D usully you can just stick to servers you know are populated by nice folks. :D

Kurgan 10-16-2002 11:12 PM

The way I see it, the whole problem would be eliminated if people simply didn't have the rule to begin with.

If people want to duel, stick to duel servers, or find a quiet spot, and do a saber challenge.

No bowing or saber off required.

Now I know, I know, people want to "role play" and stand around in a FFA level with their sabers off and chat while they stand next to some people saber dueling.

Well, either you make a mod that makes you invulnerable while your saber is off that works until you start a saber challenge, or you simply have to put up with people abusing it on occasion.

If you're the host, explain the rules to people, and if they don't obey, warn them, and if they continue kick 'em. That's the job of any decent admin anyway.

But in normal games, I think "sabers off = peace" is a silly rule, and its one I won't follow unless the admin demands I do (and then chances are I'll just find another server anyway). You can still kill people and fight with your saber turned off and its an occasion to use stealth to suprise your opponents (since the saber gives away your position). If I want to duel, a dueling server is a much better idea, and you can watch the duel first hand (using the spectator/chasecam modes).

And I agree, in CTF/CTY, the saber off rule definately is suicidal and anybody who would demand the rule be enforced in this game mode clearly doesn't understand objective based games like this. ; p

Zappa_0 10-16-2002 11:27 PM

Yes I agree with this. The Saber off rule has started to be a huge problem with many FFA Saber's only games. I thought in a FFA game you fought head on with everything you've got not standing around with the lightsaber down waiting for some one to push off, kick or to kill. I think they misunderstand the meaning of Free For All, they can get free kills from all who is in the game? Whats up with that? You know I think Darth Vader was right...It is unwise to lower your defences. Cause isnt kicking or useing force to kill fighting, so their by why should we really go by Sabers Down equals Peace?

Matt-Liell 10-17-2002 06:28 PM

well they actually have a point there:), unforunatly we cant stop it so why try? Do or do not, there is no try! and u havent DONE anything so u cant expect it to stop!:fett:


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