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-   -   Masters of the Force: Release 1 (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=80931)

razorace 10-13-2002 08:56 PM

Masters of the Force: Release 1
 
Hi all, I'm just creating this so people can comment on Release 1 of MotF. The main thread for this Mod is here. I'll be continuously checking and commenting in this thread while Release 1 is the current version of the Mod. Currently, Release 1 doesn't exist yet, but it will hopefully soon. Y, ASk, and I have been doing some serious work on the design and we think the results are going to be great. The current plans for Release 1 is to impliment just the Dodge Skill. We could include more stuff if people want, but that would push back the release date.

And, no, I don't know/can't estimate WHEN Release 1 will be finished, DON'T ASK! I don't like making fake release date estimates.

In addition, I'll not be replying to any other Release 1 thread. It's just too much of a pain to go looking thru the Forum for random posts about the Mod.

Anyway, feedback/suggestions/comments are appreciated.

Razor Ace

razorace 11-06-2002 02:57 AM

Well, sorry for the lack of updates. I've been spending my time on other things than updating all the time. :)

Anyway, Release 1 is well on track. Hopefully, it'll be ready to go in about a week. Release 1 will contain that LEAST the following...

Release 1:

1. Dodge fully up and running
2. (1) Super Secret Easter Egg (Two Words: Justice Zone)

Anyway, that's all for now.

Razor Ace

acdcfanbill 11-07-2002 04:14 AM

*waits patiently*

hehe, anyway, i like you design idead razor, this mod sounds like it will shape up to be a great thing:D

razorace 11-09-2002 08:01 PM

Progess Report 11/9/02:

Got a second compile version of MotF up and running. The easter egg appears to be fully working except for a possible minor bug. As for Dodge, dodge IS operational except I must have screwed up the math SOMEWHERE because both Dodge and FP was regening a LOT faster than they should. This makes everyone invincible to player damage but I should have it fixed soon.

As for the visuals of dodge, I don't feel it's looking as good as I want it to. You only dodge once per saber swing so the blade still passes thru your body most of the time. :P In addition, I don't think the dodge is moving fast enough. On the plus side, it's got a cool real-time, matrix-style motion blur to the dodges that I didn't expect.

So basically, things are well on the way and progessing well. :)

Razor Ace

razorace 11-14-2002 05:53 AM

Progress Report 11/14/02

I now have a bug-free version of the early Release 1 code up and running. Things are taking longer than anticipted to get everything to work/look the way it SHOULD.

Mathmatically, the dodge code is perfect (except for map damage), but right now the visuals don't look "right". A saber swing will still pass thru the body (visually) due to the code only dodging once per attack (due to the way damage is dealt). I'm going to attempt to make the character hop back a little bit, in addition to the visual dodge, to eliminate the problem. Of course, this adds the problem of it being possible to suicide by dodging your way off a cliff. However, it shouldn't be too much of a problem as it's only a slight hop back AND dodge will work for fall deaths as well. On the plus side, this will add a additional point of realism (since you can in fact accidently reflexively dodge your way off a cliff) and encourage players to keep a slight distance from any bottomless pits.

In addition, the current dodge animation priorty is too low. You'll rarely do the dodge animations unless you're not attacking and not have your saber ignited.

As for map damage, the best solution I can think of is to have the game deduct a sizable amount of DP/HP and have the player teleport to a random respawn. This sims the concept of the character surviving the fall (ether thru the Force or a gadget (like a jetpack) and running back up to the combat area). For now this will apply to everyone, but it should be refined later. For example, some characters obviously can't survive a fall like that (like a Storm Trooper) and others can (Jedi/Boba Fett/etc.) In addition, we'll probably create some new map triggers to make this ability more beleivible. Like a trigger location for fall death dodge (like an elevator or a ship that flies up whenever a player dodges the fall death) and a "undodgeable" fall death trigger for locations where you couldn't probably survive the fall (getting knocked out of a airlock or falling off the edge of Cloud City).

If anyone has a better solution to these problems please let me know.

In summary, things are still coming along, so please don't think the project has been abandoned. :)

Razor Ace

razorace 11-18-2002 09:09 PM

Progress Report 11/18/02

ok, people. I got the animation priorty problem fixed as while as various new additions to the system. I'm going to need everyone that wants to be a REAL betatester to contact me. There's a lot of new varibles that need to be twicked for the better feel/balance. Release 1 will be completed soon. :)

Razor Ace

Juveli 11-20-2002 05:14 AM

I really like this new division into Fatigue/Dodge. I've always considered the personal shield a bit silly.

Keep up the good work!

razorace 11-20-2002 01:58 PM

Thanks!

razorace 12-11-2002 12:02 AM

Progress Report 12/10/02

Sorry about the lack of updates, I was on vacation for turkey week and haven't gotten back into the swing of things until now. Great progress has been made. I'm sorry about the constant pushing back of estimated release dates. Things just keep coming up that just BEG to be messed with (such as the new true lethal weapon damage rates).

Anyway, I'm going to stick to my guns and get this bad boy's Release 1 out the door before Christmas if I can. :)

Razor Ace

razorace 12-16-2002 07:16 AM

Well, I got good news and bad news.

Good News:
I'm confident that the team will have Release 1 ready and out the door by Xmas. Probably before the end of the week.

Bad News:
I screwed up the code, BAD. I've got at least 1 really weird cvar crash bug and the bot animations are screwing up.

Good News:
In progress of screwing up the code, I figured out how to get Dodge Attack to work. For those who don't know what Dodge Attack is, it's the ability to be able to fire your weapons while dodging. It's complicated to get working because I'm dealing with animations/code that were never meant to be used this way. The biggie is making it look good. Fortunately, when me and ACDCFanBill tested the prototype it worked/looked great, so that's not a issue. I was planning to release some screenies but the code got screwed up before I could get the shots. :P

Bad News:
I gotta rewrite the Dodge Attack code.

Good News:
I backed up the code right before I started to mess with the Dodge Attack concept so no good code was lost. (in fact, I didn't 'loss' any code, including the broken stuff. I just have to go back to the latest backup and start from there to insure that I get the stuff to work without bugs.) I should be able to get it working again tomorrow and will hopefully prevent the serious bugs that were plaguing me.

Bad News:
My internet connection sucks.

Good News:
That means that there's a big opportunity for people to betatest for the mod. Just contact me and I'll provide you with some contact information. Using that info, contact me in "person" so I can get you set up and ready to beta test. The only requirements are you've gotta be able to keep all team info/files secret, betatest only with bots or other team members, stay in contact with me, and follow instructions well. This is serious betatesting so we're not exactly just playing the mod. The testing needs change minute to minute while I code, so it's critical that you can communicate with me while I'm awake/coding on the #motf IRC channel. I reserve the right to send you packing if I don't like you or you give me crap. Also, this isn't a free way to get the mod. I do keep track of who gets what so I CAN track you down and bust your ass if you try to leak the mod to the public.

Bad News:
This mod's going to be a bandwidth hog.

Good News:
It's only as bad as JK2 is normally. Dodge is damaged based so it can't be predicted by the clients. Wether it's frame skippy or not directly depends on your connection. Dodge happens very quickly and if you blink/lag, you'll often miss it.

Razor Ace

N0V4 12-16-2002 03:39 PM

So this will be a x-mas present.
Btw, I saw anoterh mod with dodging, can't rememebr wich though, so they can help you if anythign goes wrong i guess ;)


I can't wait till x-mas.

razorace 12-16-2002 04:42 PM

MotF's Dodge is far more intregrated than Style Over Substance's Force Avoid Power. It's a feature of ALL gamemodes, all players, and at all times, and works against stuff other than the lightsaber.

razorace 12-17-2002 01:53 AM

Ok-dokie, it's show and tell time. I've very, very quickly whipped up some screenshots for your enjoyment. I'll list each one seperately and add a little commentary to each.

Here we go...

razorace 12-17-2002 01:59 AM

Screenshot 1
 
http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/shot0001.jpg

Ok, there are 3 things I'll say about this screeny.

1. This is the first MotF screenshot EVER. Wooooh!
2. The shot shows Lando in the middle of a Dodge. Note his ducking movement and the afterimage.
3. His shields are flaring because some of the damage got past his Dodge (DP for short). Shields are eventually going to be replaced with more realistic armor. For now, they'll stay.

razorace 12-17-2002 02:06 AM

Screenshot 2
 
http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/shot0002.jpg

This time the shot is of the main player (me) dodging an attack from Lando. I'll point out the new Dodge Meter in the upper-left hand of the screen. Y is creating a bunch of new HUDs for the game so this implimentation of the Dodge Meter is only temp. until we get the new ones in place.

razorace 12-17-2002 02:11 AM

screenshot 3
 
http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/shot0003.jpg

Another shot of me and Lando. I'm in the middle of doing the Dodge/weapon visuals so the Hit Spark Effect during Dodge hasn't been removed yet. The Hit Spark Effect will only occur when a hit actually lands when I'm done.

razorace 12-17-2002 02:18 AM

screenshot 4
 
http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/shot0004.jpg

Another Dodge shot.

razorace 12-17-2002 02:24 AM

http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/shot0005.jpg

This is a shot of what the Dodge/weapon Visuals will look like when I'm done. The biggie here is when Lando dodged this disruptor shot, the beam continued pass him and hit the far wall. (The hit flare is coloring Lando's afterimage because it's transparent.)

A interesting tidbit, the prior 5 screenshots actually take up more space than the actual mod. (it's currently around half a meg in size) The team is being sure to keep all the "extras" out of the mod so you only have to d/l the mod instead of the mod + whatever models the creators like. :)

That's the last screenshot for now. I'll open the thread up for Q & A at this time.

razorace 12-20-2002 06:20 AM

Release 1 released!
 
I've just uploaded Release 1 to my personal webspace, jediknightii.net, and jk2files.com. Feel free to d/l it from the personal webspace until it's up on the two main sites.

http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/MotFR1.zip

http://www.jk2files.com

http://www.jediknightii.net

Enjoy!

Also, I'm heading home for X-Mas so my dedication to the Mod maybe lacking for a couple of weeks. :)

I'm beat. I'm going to bed.

Happy Christmas,
Razor Ace

ArtifeX 12-20-2002 12:14 PM

Re: Release 1 released!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by razorace
I've just uploaded Release 1 to my personal webspace, jediknightii.net, and jk2files.com. Feel free to d/l it from the personal webspace until it's up on the two main sites.

http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/MotFR1.zip

http://www.jk2files.com

http://www.jediknightii.net

Enjoy!

Also, I'm heading home for X-Mas so my dedication to the Mod maybe lacking for a couple of weeks. :)

I'm beat. I'm going to bed.

Happy Christmas,
Razor Ace

Glad to hear your progress, Razorace! The community is sure to be helped out by another major mod being available. I'll be sure to check it out soon.

razorace 12-20-2002 02:27 PM

Thanks Artifex. :) I hope so too. A ton of people aren't playing the game anymore.

In other news, I've converted the screenshot images inside the thread into links to keep the thread load time down.

FenixDown 12-22-2002 04:16 AM

it's excellent...

...saber fighting seems to be more fun when this mod is in use.

tufkal 12-22-2002 12:40 PM

I love the mod razor. And I agree with FenixDown, sabre fighting IS more fun with this mod on. Huge portions of the game havent changed, its got some simple beautiful changes. Few things id LOVE to see

1)Everything discussed in your dev thread, including the jetpack mod, more realistic shields, a new HUD, and the class-like system u discussed

2)I was told they make no matter in a fight, but some people love em for the look. two sabres, and a dbl sabre

3)Emotes are fun :)


THings IMHO that ruin a mod

1)Hilts hilts hilts wtf, you can barely see the hilts as is, and the default one is fine! Waste of time and messy UI IMHO

Mex 12-22-2002 01:36 PM

Very nice work RazorAce!
It is quite fun playing with your mod, you feel more 'jedi-ish'

And you can kill people in 3 shots with the blaster now, it makes the game more realistic rather than doing 20 shots to kill someone!

Rating 8.6/10

Could use some emotes, make the new HUD look better, and its quite hard to kill someone with a saber when you have a saber to.

Keep working on this mod, vert good :nod:

razorace 12-22-2002 04:27 PM

Quote:

did a little test today and i love it .

unfortunately,a few people were complaining saying duels took to long,oh well for them
1. If they don't complain to me directly, I can't know about it.
2. Duels are SUPPOSE to last a while. When was the last time you've seen a 30 saber duel in one of the movies. :)
3. A lot of the current saber "problems" in inherent to the Raven's mindset for the saber code. I'm planning on redoing that after I finish up some details on Dodge and impliment Herr's better hitzone code.

Quote:

it's excellent...

...saber fighting seems to be more fun when this mod is in use.
Thanks, I think so too. :)

More replies later.

Alesh 12-22-2002 07:24 PM

I tried the mod and I think it can be great (for now it doesn't have enough stuff to keep using it, but i'm sure i'm gonna end up using some later version) altough i found a little problem when shootting flechette's secondary fire: it seemed to impact in me (it exploded before even seeing the grenades or whatever they are)

Apart from this little problem (I've never liked this weapon anyway :P) I've had some ideas:

Changes to saber blocking: I think it should spend dodge points (but less than a normal dodge, also dependant on defense level. like -25% lvl 1, -50% lvl 2, -75% lvl 3) and be used instead of the dodging animation when possible (when being attacked in a saber fight, for what i have tested, you dodge even if you could usually block the hit), also if you put in some kind of jedi vs merc kind of game mode, you could make it so the more force you ahve left, the lest dodging/blocking costs (maybe reducing the cost in 1/2 or 1/4 the % force you still have, or something like).

I'd change the lightsaber special moves, except the blue one: you must be already jumping to execute the move, and the move doesn't make you jump any more, you just do the superheavy slash in the direction you are currently jumping, or flip in mid air and do that weird yellow stance cut (unless of curse, it ends up making ppl fly like the blue one did).

I think the force powers would need some changes too to be more movie-like:
-You should be able to jump as high as your force allows (we've seen some really high jumps in the new movies), and something like if you pressed your jump button while falling, make it spend force to avoid damage (should spend something like the cost to jump at the same height, inspired by Mace Windu jumping to the arena).
-Being able to block force lightning with the lightsaber (no dodging) but maybe at normal dodge cost instead of the reduced blocking cost (or spending force instead).
-Some resistance to force powers (push, pull, grip...) depending on how much force you have left.
-Changing Absorption to be something like what Yoda does to Dooku's Lightning (you have to hold the button and aim to absorb things, lvl 1 should just cancel the power, lvl 2 should give you some force, and level 3 should reflect some of the effect).

FenixDown 12-22-2002 09:05 PM

...so can ya give us a hint about (or to unlock) this semi-secret easter egg?

razorace 12-22-2002 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alesh
I tried the mod and I think it can be great (for now it doesn't have enough stuff to keep using it, but i'm sure i'm gonna end up using some later version) altough i found a little problem when shootting flechette's secondary fire: it seemed to impact in me (it exploded before even seeing the grenades or whatever they are)
Yeah, we just noticed that. Alt Fire for the Flechette isn't working in Release 1. It's a really easy fix thou. It'll be fine in Release 2.
Quote:

Changes to saber blocking: I think it should spend dodge points (but less than a normal dodge, also dependant on defense level. like -25% lvl 1, -50% lvl 2, -75% lvl 3) and be used instead of the dodging animation when possible (when being attacked in a saber fight, for what i have tested, you dodge even if you could usually block the hit), also if you put in some kind of jedi vs merc kind of game mode, you could make it so the more force you ahve left, the lest dodging/blocking costs (maybe reducing the cost in 1/2 or 1/4 the % force you still have, or something like).
Actually, saber blocking will take Fatigue Points (FP) in the near future. FP will replace Force Points.

As for adjustable DP/FP costs, we've discussed this and we don't think it's a good idea. It makes things more complicated for the coders and the players, and it's not really nessicarily when we could just change the base DP costs. But anyway, FP will sort of be the feature you want; blocking, attacking, running, etc. will cost FP.

Dodge only occurs if you have already failed your block attempt and are going to take damage. We may or may not use saber block as Dodge. However. changing it would probably make it feel like you're losing DP for no reason.
Quote:

I'd change the lightsaber special moves, except the blue one: you must be already jumping to execute the move, and the move doesn't make you jump any more, you just do the superheavy slash in the direction you are currently jumping, or flip in mid air and do that weird yellow stance cut (unless of curse, it ends up making ppl fly like the blue one did).
I'm not sure what you're talking about. I haven't messed with any of the actual saber move mechanics. I've only upped the damage.
Quote:

I think the force powers would need some changes too to be more movie-like.....
Noted, all of those things are already planned. :)

razorace 12-22-2002 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FenixDown
...so can ya give us a hint about (or to unlock) this semi-secret easter egg?
Not right now. Once we've got a website up and running we'll post it on the site.

Alesh 12-23-2002 06:18 AM

Quote:

Actually, saber blocking will take Fatigue Points (FP) in the near future. FP will replace Force Points.

As for adjustable DP/FP costs, we've discussed this and we don't think it's a good idea. It makes things more complicated for the coders and the players, and it's not really nessicarily when we could just change the base DP costs. But anyway, FP will sort of be the feature you want; blocking, attacking, running, etc. will cost FP.
Thats fine too :P

Quote:

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I haven't messed with any of the actual saber move mechanics. I've only upped the damage.
That wouldn't be much of a change really, it would just change the way the moves are done, so they wouldn't be limited to just 1 exact move (ie you could jump forward and exec the yellow special while turning making something similar to the yellow special in SP) anyway it's not a big change and it might not work well (and some moves could look a little weird).

razorace 12-23-2002 03:51 PM

So, you want the team to restore the slight yellow special move varation found in MP? Or do you want new moves?

OH, you mean remove the movement lock on the specials. :) uuummmm, no. The saber code handles damage based on a simple touch = damage system. To remove the movement locks only turns certain moves into spin fests to maximize damage coverage.

Well, the plan is to add additional "Finishing Moves" at some point. We're going with the concept that there's no such thing as a truely "special" move in saber combat. If you make any move "better" than the others, people WILL spam it. All the saber moves will be even and fair in MotF.

Razor Ace

razorace 12-23-2002 04:02 PM

Quote:

One more thing,and im not sure if its a bug.

I joined a MotF server,and all the elements were there(dodge etc),but there was no dodge meter in the top left.

So i left and went to another server that was running it,and low and behold,it was there. Is this just a glitch?
I'm not really sure what the problem is. Did you d/l and install the game before you playing that first time? MotF has some client components that are required for the Dodge Meter and some other things to work. I'm not sure if the autod/l runs these files on the first game or not. (AKA you may have to restart the game first.) OR maybe the server you were playing on had the game install in a non-standard folder.

What servers are running MotF and how do most of you people locate them? Filters?

Alesh 12-23-2002 06:35 PM

I wasn't speaking about turning around (which isn't that bad unless abused) but the movement (in the yellow special: jump up & a little forward while doing the move, in red: jump forward while doing the move), my idea was being able to control the moving direction and speed, the move should only make the model do the animation (and damage).
It would be something like doing an emote in mid air, it wouldn't change your jump or anything, you would just move in a strange way in mid-air (try breakdancing in mid-air, it looks weird but might show you what i mean).

razorace 12-23-2002 06:41 PM

Oh, ok. Well, I probably could disable the side strafe movement lock. Obviously, the ability to change the way you're pointing the saber couldn't be unlocked due to abuse. I'll mess with it when I get to it. :)

ryudom 12-23-2002 07:03 PM

whats an emote? you know you can already do a mid air medium special right? (in 1.04 anyway)

razorace 12-23-2002 08:54 PM

An emote is an animation that shows an expression, like waving to a person, nodding, etc. They're normally totally unimportant to gameplay.

Hekx 12-23-2002 09:14 PM

Lovely mod :)

The dodging does make it more like the movies since Luke does some dodging laser blasts in ROTJ on Jabbas Sail Barge and during the duel with Vader in ROTJ, there's some ducks and dodges there :)

Maybe if you implemented some of the features from JediMod (emotes / hilts / tck saber code) it would also be more like the movies since in basejk2 everyone has the same hilt and has limited colours while Jedi's hilts and sabers colours are personal to them. Plus emotes make the game more fun :xp:

Maybe you can also add the mod_skillmode command to the actual gameplay for instance: if someone got hit in the head with a saber; they would die. In JK2; it'd mostly do the same damage as if you hit them in the leg.

You may also want to add the ability to dismember hands / disable weapon hands so they are unable to shoot (Jango / Mace in EPII)

The possibilities are endless :)

I personally would like to see some of the JediMod features added to make the game more bright aswell as adding new features similar to the SW universe.

Alesh 12-24-2002 03:12 PM

Just a little question i have... what's the plan for force sight? I mean, seeing mine beams and dodging sniper fire is a lot less useful with the dodging system. Is it gonna do something else? (maybe lessen the dodge cost because you "see" the future and have more time to react?)

razorace 12-24-2002 03:28 PM

The hit location-based damage is planned but the current hitzone code is REALLY crappy. Until I install Herr's improved hitzone code, it's not worth doing. The current code is SO bad that you can hit a player in the back from the FRONT with the saber!

Weapon destruction is also planned but I haven't explored it yet.

However, maiming will remain a death only feature. There are too many gameplay/technical issues to make it work while being alive. The saber combat system isn't accurate enough to be able to aim for hand hits anyway. You're always out of the fight when you get maimed in the movies, anyway. :)

I'm going to type officially on the record here. THERE WILL BE NO CUT AND PASTE MODDING IN MOTF!

The objective isn't to be JediMod with Dodging. While JediMod is cool, it's really just a gimmack mod for JK2. The MotF has no intention of being the same way. This isn't a diss to Dest or the other JM/JP+/Forcemod modders. I really respect the things Dest, TCK, and others have done with the code.

We're aimming for new features that actually change the gameplay to be more movie-like. That means that emots, RGB sabers, sabers out of the ass, etc will be implimented when we can make them truely part of the gameplay, near the end of the project, or as we feel like it.

This doesn't mean that we aren't listening or enjoying your feedback. We just don't want people to expect us to bend over backwards to impliment stuff that screws up/has not relivence on the gameplay.

Thank you,
Razor Ace

razorace 12-24-2002 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alesh
Just a little question i have... what's the plan for force sight? I mean, seeing mine beams and dodging sniper fire is a lot less useful with the dodging system. Is it gonna do something else? (maybe lessen the dodge cost because you "see" the future and have more time to react?)
That's a good question. We're still in the concept stage but the general plan is to replace Force Seeing with Force Sense which is basically represents your ability to use the Force to see/feel things that you can't normally see. How this will work in practice is still up to the design team debate. :)


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