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Old 03-24-2004, 12:19 PM   #42
Ray Jones
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: digital
Posts: 8,263
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firstly.. I DO RESPECT and ACCEPT and will NOT nor WANT to question the decision that this kind of avatar (or PICTURE, in general) is not appropriate to this forum (hey, and i might even AGREE!), and it might just have looked somewhat silly and offensive, what also may depend to a certain point of view.

i think we all agree that basically noone has the right do degrade anyone. men not women, vice versa and withing the same sex too.

also RESPECT seems to be the main issue here. it is NOT very respectful to "use" naked/ bouncing or whatever breasts for advertising for beer, for instance. using it in a (senseful) way for an advertising fo sport-bras could be considered another thing.
but i dont see a huge lack of respect in that picture, there is no porn link, there is not "dirty" thing said on it and no "women are NOTHING" written somewhere. heck, it is some (nice?) drawn piece of art, the kind of useless crap art, but still not a reason to put sexist, feminist and respectless comments on the plan.

another point: there are persons who like to display themselves or get displayed as "sexual objects" and some not.
there are some who are offended by nearly-naked breasts and some by breasts under a shirt but without a bra, some may even be offended by "printing through" panties or spots in the face. others hate thongs. some like mayo on their sandwich and some not.
ALL and EACH of them have to deal with each other from BOTH sides.

now to the children.
i am father of a girl myself and i am "feminist" if you like to call it so. means: i do not agree with MOST of the male members of human society, man i even think my toenails will curl up when i hear what many men are actually really seem to be thinking about women. it's just disgusting sometimes.
and i do my best NOT to teach any of those views to children regardless if boys or girls, although i am sometimes afraid that is not enough. but i rather TALK openly about sexuality and know that my daughter can handle a picture of BOUNCING BREASTS proper than trying to keep her away from stuff like that, so that she probably will get some kind of "misinformation" from whoever. because there is one thing for sure: sexuality will be part of her life and it's her parents damn job to make sure that she will know what's going on. and no, that does not necessarily means she will have sex at the age of 11. it probably means that she will not think that a tampon can be used as a contraceptive, even if there is this guy who assures her it can.

however, we are naturally born naked and things that "hang" or are "attached" somewhere have the tendency to move. so why make an "unnaturally" thing of it?

it is sooo easy to be personal offended. either by a (childish?) breast-av or by an (overrated?) anti-breast-av action.
and it's easy to break it down to arrogant, respectless and personal speechs about feminism, sexism and being pissed off, without even considering that this kind of polarizing is not helpful in any way but putting up the conflict and that both sides are SUPPRESSING the other sides opinions.
but beside those ALL-SO-TRUE opinions there are FACTS.

one of those facts is, that our whole existence is based on sexuality. and no matter who may find it, for what reason ever, offending, women do have breasts, men too, some like it, some not, and there are "p.s" and they generally "belong" into "v.s", no matter what it is called or considered or how it's seen as offensive.
that fact exists FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS now..

so perhabs we should start to face it with a healthy sense of intelligence and not behave like spanish inquisitors here.


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