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Old 03-24-2004, 03:48 PM   #44
QuantumDelta
Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: England
Posts: 17
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Originally posted by leXX
When did I ever say it was sexist to like breasts? Why don't you actually read a thread before you post in it.
Actually, it's fairly easy to move to this conclusion (on how you think) from your text.




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Feminists only piss off sexists. Guess that's thier job eh? Heh.
If I need character references to make this comment I will get them, however, I'm extremely anti-Sexist/Racist/Ageist/etc.

on the same foot, feminists and other such groups who continue to campaign so militantly are equally ignorant and insecure/weak minded as the people they are campaigning against (we're all human, eh?)

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When did I call you racist and homophobic?
Not my argument but I'll grant the fact that I didn't see you call him racist or homophobic, however he, like I, most likely rate that in the same box as sexist.

BD being sexist is something I repeatedly have mentioned annoys me, and tried to get him to change on it...
But bleh.
Regardless, being more neutral than thou, (heh...HTTS?) I would easily say, it's not a huge leap.
Though, like I said I didn't actually see the words anywhere.


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...

A lot of words are being put into my mouth aren't they?

...
Well, maybe you should check the words you wrote below a little later on, being childish?
The avatars childish?
Anime is something in which is mainly viewed and enjoyed by young adults, and the split in male/female isn't actually as big as you would think (though it is fairly mainly male... but, tha'ts again down to socialist crap.. uhh... kinda like your socialist crap, but the polar opposite, though, you're just as bad as they are, and it's coming out that way as well, I will point out for the second time, in the same thread, that your behaviour, specifically in the next two passages, is COMPLETELY UNFIT For moderator behaviour).

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Anyway, I won't bother replying to the rest of it, because quite franky, I would just be repeating myself, and this thread has always been pointless.
Narukoto.
Avoiding my own points?
Since I am just about the only person you haven't addressed..... more or less?

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Go ahead and have your bouncing boobs if you feel so strongly about it,
I've only been here two days, and I feel strongly about one thing that's exclusively here so far, your attitude.
Again, as the more I disect this passage, it's completely, completely, coutner-moderator.. (I have been offered moderator positions for other forums, as major as MMORPGs, as clan forums, and as LAN Arena company forums, I currently hold three of those positions, and I am fairly well valued on each forum).

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but I will have every right to have my clothed wobbling penis avatar if that's the case (and STTCT will have every right to have her penis avatar),
Find one which is anime, and we'll talk about it.
Whilst this one is not real it's a different issue, however is someone posted with an avatar of a real girl/lady in a bikini or a cloth, or a kimono doing the same thing I would back your oppinion, and BD knows I'm not kidding with that, there are limits.
As I said above, the material you are discussing as offensive, sexual, and sexist, is obviously NOT rated that way by the people who do the certificates on the films and TV Series you watch, because serise similiar to that, don't have a high enough rating to be considered ban material, it's not all that contraversial, and it's not exploiting any particular person.

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and then we will see how far everyone will take it, and we will see just how pathetic this place can and will become.
Believe me, I've been on some of the worst and best forums on the web in terms of attitude, behaviour and other attributes you seem to value.
I will link you some in PM if you care to check, I don't wish to post them here out of respect for BD (Whom asked me to keep our relations to those other forums fairly seperate for a few reasons).

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If you want to spend the rest of your forum life looking at bouncing boobs and woobling penis's, so be it.
An avatar, is an avatar.
I have one specific avatar I use on most forums, I haven't directed this forums profile toward it yet because I would have liked you to have acknowledged that there are people who are arguing against you that don't particularly give a damn about avatar/sigpic unless they're within acceptable boundaries.
My normal sigpic for the forum I frequent the most these days is currently;
http://smalltimerivalry.com/sschost/...elta/eyez2.jpg

With http://smalltimerivalry.com/sschost/...lta/Naruto.jpg for a sig pic.

My last desktop background was;
http://smalltimerivalry.com/sschost/...y_grade-01.jpg

My current backgrond;
http://www.banime.com/output/shaorin1024x768.jpg

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Yes, I'm being childish, no more so than the avatar's themselves.
No, you're being childish, the avatars inthemselves are not, since they are inanimate objects, and are incapable of being anything other than avatars themselves.
What they are, is what you make of them.
As you state here, your objective to them seems to me, to be childish, on the grounds of insecurity.

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Oh, and I'd like to thank Jed for realising that I'm being attacked simply because I'm female. =)
Irony considering my own comments....
It would be easy for me to proceed from this comment that all you are doing here IS pushing your own oppinion on other people and IS flaming BlackDove.

Please, maybe some deeper thought would be a good idea before a moderator is going to post their personal oppinions

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Since nobody has posted it yet, here is the link to the particular picture of this controversy. Keep in mind it may be offensive, but that's the whole point of this discussion anyways. Ultimately, the judgement of whether it is appropriate for this discussion is up to the mods, though the opinion of others should be taken into account
It is, and other oppinions should be taken into account, the moderators, are not here to serve themselves, they are here to serve the members of this forum, and they are here to keep the forum running smoothly, at this point in time I would be suggesting that, at least two, are doing the polar opposite.

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also one cannot argue marijuana as it isn't illegal everywhere. Nor is it considered a major problem everywhere. however the growing line thinning of what is deemed socially acceptable when it comes to sexuality. it's hard to make a judgement. I'm not sexist but I won't let myself fight over flopping breasts or a gyrating penis.
That's fine if you believe legality makes the difference, then you should be paying attention to the LEGAL rating that most anime containing content such as this avatar.
The only reasonable oppinion I have seen so far against it, has been one of the admins, whom wanted to keep the forums PG.
Meanwhile, others who are arguing it's sexist, and that's why they want it gone.

Sexist, heh.

Sexism to me is something I don't think lexx has ever seen, abuse of women (physical or mental) or men, simply because of which sex they are, sexuality is something different, sexuality in anime, heh, anime was originally meant to be, everything taboo, if you wanted to see some sexist stuff, I would post that, but considering how ignorant and how low your tollerance level for things seems to be I would consider you likely to throw up .

So tell me, if a girl (as I have met a few who do) choose to use this avatar, are they sexist?
Heh, being unable to link profiles to these people as most of the forums I've seen these avatars used on have died out (as said before it's a fad, it comes, it goes).

Generally speaking, though, someone who finds animes sexist are really about as ignorant as they come.
I asked around, and, even on #animesuki (fansubbers irc chat channel) over on rizon.net -- only one person, in the whole group (80 anime insane users) had ever seen a single sexist remark in anime.

Scantily clad "perfect" girls, drawn a lot, but never actually in a sexist light, anime artists often like to tell stories with their anime and their focus is very rarely on sex (though there is a whole catagory that I avoid completely... about sex, from anime).

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firstly.. I DO RESPECT and ACCEPT and will NOT nor WANT to question the decision that this kind of avatar (or PICTURE, in general) is not appropriate to this forum (hey, and i might even AGREE!), and it might just have looked somewhat silly and offensive, what also may depend to a certain point of view.
That's fair, you state also that it depends on point of view.
one which you later profess is biased.
I continue to say I am neutral, and that feminists and sexists alike, annoy me, especially when they are militant, as seen in this thread.

However your post seems to be fairly well written out, and worth replying to.
(EG; not a flame on another person)
So I'll continue ;p
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i think we all agree that basically noone has the right do degrade anyone. men not women, vice versa and withing the same sex too.
I agree with that, however degrading people who are degrading people, makes both, wrong.

Though, in a way, I am again no better since I dispise both groups, but maybe I thought things through a little more because at least I understand the reasoning behind both groups and understand why hate is a relevent word.

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also RESPECT seems to be the main issue here. it is NOT very respectful to "use" naked/ bouncing or whatever breasts for advertising for beer, for instance. using it in a (senseful) way for an advertising fo sport-bras could be considered another thing.
but i dont see a huge lack of respect in that picture, there is no porn link, there is not "dirty" thing said on it and no "women are NOTHING" written somewhere. heck, it is some (nice?) drawn piece of art, the kind of useless crap art, but still not a reason to put sexist, feminist and respectless comments on the plan.
There isn't a huge lack of respect in that picture, I could find where it first came from with some effort but I would suspect you will find it's a fan of the character who is in a specific anime, she's a bouncy person with that kinda fluffy attitude towards life that you see in some animes.
It is a nice piece of anime (though it's not particularly highly detailed or high budget drawing (if it were I would be closer to rating it as anime, but since it's not, it's not meant to be drawn as a sexy anime babe, it's drawn as a fun one.
Which is how that character is portrayed (Rae = Fun gal).

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another point: there are persons who like to display themselves or get displayed as "sexual objects" and some not.
there are some who are offended by nearly-naked breasts and some by breasts under a shirt but without a bra, some may even be offended by "printing through" panties or spots in the face. others hate thongs. some like mayo on their sandwich and some not.
ALL and EACH of them have to deal with each other from BOTH sides.
Erm.. printing through? (dunno what you mean...)
However you're right those people who have differing oppinions should be able to deal with eachother.
Can you see that in the super mods posts?
I can't.

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now to the children.
i am father of a girl myself and i am "feminist" if you like to call it so. means: i do not agree with MOST of the male members of human society, man i even think my toenails will curl up when i hear what many men are actually really seem to be thinking about women. it's just disgusting sometimes.
Quite.

When I either idle in Yahoo chat (Teen Advice Line) on occasion (before the room drives me insane), I see plenty of "Why are guys all jerks?" or "why are women all sluts?"
etc, etc, stupid, gender wide generalisations that make people look ignorant, normally because they are, infact just that.

You are quite right, it is disgusting when people are like that, and it is appauling that people can transmit this behaviour.

However... what most people don't seem to realise is... both sexes are as bad as eachother, and, therefore, this behaviour goes both ways.
I see plenty of sex obssessed sluts every day walking around outside the building I work (.... I work in a damned government building and it's in a Red Light District .)

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and i do my best NOT to teach any of those views to children regardless if boys or girls, although i am sometimes afraid that is not enough. but i rather TALK openly about sexuality and know that my daughter can handle a picture of BOUNCING BREASTS proper than trying to keep her away from stuff like that, so that she probably will get some kind of "misinformation" from whoever.
Actually that's one of the best kind of parenting possible, if you don't deny your daughter of information she will be more prepaired, and, therefore stronger, and more capable of dealing with life when it throws things at her.
Due to the behaviour of Lexx, I would be interested on seeing how her children would develop mentally in comparison.
Though, that said, Lexx doesn't seem all that stupid, nor incapable, so the slight and probably normally indetectable difference in parenting would be a nice thing to note.

Again, I might be wrong, I don't know how she parents her children, however consider she is coming over as a fairly strong feminist, I wonder if she is inflicting those prejudices (Because they ARE Prejudices) on her children (I can tell that from her post she wouldn't do this conciously, I'm trying to make that point/musing as non-offencively as possible, but most of the ways you influence your children, are not conciously).

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because there is one thing for sure: sexuality will be part of her life and it's her parents damn job to make sure that she will know what's going on. and no, that does not necessarily means she will have sex at the age of 11. it probably means that she will not think that a tampon can be used as a contraceptive, even if there is this guy who assures her it can.
There's the confirmation.
In my oppinion, you are one of the best parents I have met on the internet, simply from one post.
Heh...


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however, we are naturally born naked and things that "hang" or are "attached" somewhere have the tendency to move. so why make an "unnaturally" thing of it?
No clue.
Sexuality is not something I have a problem with.
(...*stares at BD waiting for the comment :P*...)
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it is sooo easy to be personal offended. either by a (childish?) breast-av or by an (overrated?) anti-breast-av action.
and it's easy to break it down to arrogant, respectless and personal speechs about feminism, sexism and being pissed off, without even considering that this kind of polarizing is not helpful in any way but putting up the conflict and that both sides are SUPPRESSING the other sides opinions.
but beside those ALL-SO-TRUE opinions there are FACTS.
You saved me writing this in a later post.
I draw people out in my debates, and finalise with comments like these, because often, when I'm debating, and other people are arguing, it's made most obvious when you finalise with this sort of thing, and they are left arguing the same point.

People who do not care to debate, never change their oppinions.

And, you're right, all sides of this needs to be seen to.
The Admin seems to be in the best position to do this, and since he said he has been less active recently, I would suspect it was the lack of this neutral and calculating precence that brought this situation into being.
It's not his fault, far from it, things would probably be far worse if he, and the other staff (I Presume they're not all the type to be polarised) that do the kind of social role he fills were present.

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one of those facts is, that our whole existence is based on sexuality. and no matter who may find it, for what reason ever, offending, women do have breasts, men too, some like it, some not, and there are "p.s" and they generally "belong" into "v.s", no matter what it is called or considered or how it's seen as offensive.
that fact exists FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS now..

so perhabs we should start to face it with a healthy sense of intelligence and not behave like spanish inquisitors here.
Quite.
It's rare I'm impressed by a poster I don't know...
I doubt that means much to you, but if you considered my position in a few other communities you'd probably be quite flattered :P
In the mean time...some nub called ya a great quality poster.
If only the other people here were more like you..heh.


edit;

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Originally posted by edlib
First: There's a big difference between Nazi symbology and most other nationalistic symbology due to the weight of history it carries around with it and the loaded potental it has to offend a very large group of people around the world due to the hate it carries behind the image.
That's not entirely true, since the only thing that stops any nation, or government from becoming what the Nazi's tried to do, is the fact that most of them are aware they couldn't pull it off.

Though you are very correct it's not AS BAD.
However I personally dislike patriotism and nationalism because I know fully well most countries are pretty much the same (and I'm english ffs... think about stereotypical english peoples when you see that comment..)


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Also: If someone had a legitimate problem with my avatar and expressed thier concerns eloquently enough to convince me that they were sincere, then I would change it in a heartbeat. I'm not in love with it,.. it's only an image, and as such represents only a small fraction of what I like to think is my personality and ideals.
I don't.
I would not bring it to a point where I would say I can't tollerate seeing it, and, even if I did, I'm not here enough to complain about it.

As it stands anyway, the avatar isn't saying something like "America owns you." ~ so there's nothing wrong with it in the slightest, tbh.
It was just a comment on the irony of your own comment and how it just didn't seem right at the time... (though it was 2-3am and I was in a rush ..heh).

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For the record: I chose this avatar (as well as my current sig) as a gentle and somewhat ironic jab at the current election-year politics my country is currently going through. It is also a bit of an existental protest to the current climate of government censorship on various media (of which Zappa was great defender against, and in my mind a true patriot)
Hense why I dislike it (I don't find it offencive, however).

I would never ask you to remove it, though, since it's far from unreasonable.

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(By the way... before anyone gets the idea of saying that it's ironic for someone who uses a very noted and vocal defender of free-speech as his avatar to defend the actions of censorship at an internet forum, be sure you know what the definition of free-speech in America is, and EXACTLY what it defends and what it doesn't.)
Quite.
There is irony in it, but only something to muse at, it was why I pointed it out but didn't make a huge long fuss about it.
As for defending censorship ~ heh, what's being censored?
What I see is closer to oppression.
Which is why I object.
As I said before, I am a moderator, and an admin in places, I know what censorship is, and I have seen an admin description of how he would like the content of the forum to rate, so this, is clearly, not censorship, but oppression.

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In the end it's just a picture, kids. If that's what you really want to see then I can point you to about a half a billion places on the web where you can look at bouncing breasts to your hearts' contentment.
Please don't be patronising.

As said, it was just a picture, if you didn't click the link or do not know what the picture is since it's anime it's not even real, it's not exploiting anyone, it's not berating anyone, it's not degrading anyone, and, I suspect it was never even intended in that light.

It wouldn't even be rated 12, or 15 if rated for an age cert.

Hense I can't quite see your point in terms of looking at the picture as a pornographic one.
Then again, that's because I don't.
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But if someone else, (and even if it's only ONE other person,) who also posts here everyday has a legitimate beef with an image or expression used in your profile that offends them everytime they go by one of your posts, then it shouldn't even be a question about changing it to something else. (Unless you are really only here to get in other people's faces and provoke them. In which case you should simply be banned, since that is NOT what this place is about.)
I'm here because I'm a person who tends to enjoy a decent debate, when I first hit reply I expected one, since this forum seems to have pretty decent standards, and Jay upheld those standards.

I'ev been to this forum a few times over the past couple of years, everytime I never felt the need to sign up, because, unless something needs saying, I wont.

In this case, no one was saying, what I felt should have been said.
Though if Jay had posted earlier in the tone in which he posted just now, I most probably wouldn't be here, right now, unless he was ignored.

I have been doing my best to avoid flaming people or saying things which people may find offencive, but at the same time I refuse to be anything less than 100% sincere in what I say.

On your note of saying if any specific avatar even affends a single person on this forum it should be removed, I will sustain that point, however, in that, specific case, I would point out the total, and extreme hypocrisy of lexx advancing censorship when posting with what I would deem a sexually orientated avatar, that is, a lot of cleavage that doesn't need to be there, with the loss of a few pixels, it would not be in the image, but she has chosen to leave it as it is.

and, along with the other points I have made (unmoderator like behaviour), it is this hypocrisy which would make me feel so strongly as to abject to the presence of that avatar.
When a precident is set, it is kept.

Another fairly decent post, and actually on this case I'm suprised I didn't expect you to be quite that deep even if Zappa was a deep guy...


Everybody's keeping secrets, never let me get back.

Last edited by QuantumDelta; 03-24-2004 at 04:06 PM.
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