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Old 03-24-2004, 09:02 PM   #51
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: England
Posts: 17
SWP ~ Why are you on a fan/gaming forum while you are in school?
That in itself is instantly inappropriate.

Forums, out right, are banned in every school and college I ever attended.
It was only university that didn't mind, and, that's typically because there was something like 3 hour gaps between some of my lectures.

Lexx, I didn't want to do this but meh...
For future reference, please DO NOT break up my paragraphs, they are in that form for a reason, you pull a lines out of context and comment on them.
It's cheap, it's not smart, it's not going to work on someone who has been around forums as long as I have.
Sorry, like I said, I'm here to debate, not argue, not flame, not fight.
What's more sad is from the looks of it you were trying to give my post a "fair" analysis from your perspective, which means you may have genuinely read the text as you commented on it...
which.......just isn't how it was meant to be read.
Things are put into contexts for reasons, especially on forums.

I am neither sexist, racist or homophobic, so believe me, my farts do smell a damn sight sweeter than your foul smelling ones.

Feminists only piss off sexists. Guess that's thier job eh? Heh.
With as conservative as you are on avatars, I'd call that a flame, as well.

I wont pull the debatable flames out of the posts because there's a few of them, and you have to quote BDs text as well, admittedly, he is being quite the (usual self) jack ass about this, but, dispite his inability to articulate his point well enough, he has a decent one.

The question here is why are we offended by a picture of bouncing boobs. Let me break it down for you.

It is hard enough for the women in this forum to feel comfortable as it is. We are faced with many stereotypes such as we are rubbish at games, don't like Star Wars, we must be ugly to be posting here etc etc. A picture of bouncing boobs belittles us further. It is a symbol of male dominance, which says one thing, women are nothing but sexual objects to be gawked at.
I didn't want to pull these sentences out of context, as I just complained about you doing the same to me.
Anyway, I wanted to comment on a couple of things in here;

A few of the girls I have met online, have been absolutely beautiful.
A few of the guys I have met online, have been extremely hansome.

When I played my second "major" online game, I became world #1 at it after a short period of refresher (year break from it).
I trained people at it, male, and female.

With one exception, the female pilots typically came off the better players, or at least the most improved players, because they could multitask easier and they would pay more attention, and, with one exception, their egos would get in the way less.

The single exception to the female pilots being better, was BD.
He succeeded me, as world #1, though I don't believe he explicitly trained more than two people after attaining that position, he did, unquestionably hold it (...apart from one psychopathic mega %$)( which is probably half a reason BD has problem with women... ....hell, the cow did me some damage too).

....Anyway, I know from experience women are easily capable of giving as much as men in terms of performance at games.

By the way, this was one of the passages that made you come off as insecure which ...most feminists I've met are.
You just have to attack their points the right way to make it obvious to everyone that they are.

Same, to a degree, with sexists, and, very much the same with homophobes and racists....

It is also inapropriate for this forum. We have a certain standard to maintain seeing as there are a high number of younger members. Allowing an avatar like that can lead to a number of other similar avatars, and this is a family forum (the Star Wars forum at least).
As I have said, it breaks no legal laws, nor would it push your "rating" up if forums were ever given age certificates.
FYI, Animated avatars are banned, full stop, end of story, on the forum where I have the most influence.

"similiar" avatars would bea dealt with on a case by case basis as well, this one is one side of a line, most of the ones I can think of, that you might be refering to, are on the other side of the line.

Would it be ok to allow a picture of an animated covered bouncing penis? No it wouldn't. And yes, boobs fall into the same category.
Is it possible to find a covered, bouncing animated penis?
As far as I know, the same as a vagina, in animes, the primary sex organs are normally, only revealed in even the slightest during actual intercourse.
I don't watch enough hentai to declare that rule unbroken, but knowing how the style of the artists goes, actual nudity doesn't work very well for their storyline unless it's a final climax (forgive the pun).

Then again, generally speaking a lot of hentai is tenticle stuff...and demon there isn't really a lot of male sexual parts in it....normally the men are hiding in a corner somewhere crying because their girl is being riped apart infront of them, litterally in some cases.

Both are sexual parts of the body that if presented uncovered on this forum, would be considered porn. Would it be ok to allow a picture of real boobs bouncing up and down? No it wouldn't. The fact that the avatar is a cartoon makes no difference.
If it were a cartoon nekkid part of the body it would be porn.

What's your point, and how is it valid to a clothed pair?
I don't see one, it's a totally different level, again.

Even there;
Janet Jacksons' shameless plug has revealed more during prime time national US TV, and there has been similar stuff on UK TV, though due to our conservative nation admittedly it'll probably never be as bad as it will be during the same day on a US TV.
You see Britney Spears bouncing around on TV every day, you tell your kids not to watch her? or any of the other female artists?
What about some of the guy artists who occasionally push the boundaries? ~~ No?
Double standard??

I myself have boobs in my avatar, so as you can see, I am not offended by pictures of boobs, so long as they are presented in a decent manner. If someone was to have a picture of just boobs, then I would consider it offensive aswell, for the reasons stated above.
I find your picture more of a problem because it has more detail, and, as you should know considering you've had two's "promise of" or "temptation of" not the actual "act of" that's sexual.
Sex itself tends to be under-rated, most of the stuff you'll see is all temptation, hints, etc...

I don't see how you come to this conclusion from what I've posted in this thread. I haven't once said it's sexist to like breasts. I like breasts. Believe it not, I'm not the prude you make me out to be, as anyone who has known me long enough or chats with me outside this forum can tell you.
I say what I see.
re-reading some of your stuff you don't come off as bad, but you may wish to drop the sarcasm, childish approaches and cheap tactics, it does make you look very much like a foaming at the mouth feminist.

As for painting you one way or another ~
BD knows for a fact that I state things as I see them, and like I said before.
I tend to say things with 100% Sincerity, even if, occasionally, I say them wrong and end up unpopular because of it, if you consider it as an attack, maybe you could review how you posted and note to not allow yourself to be "Attacked" in the same way in the future?

Believe me, some posts I've made on some forums, although they have broke the post limit for the character count (15000 words iirc) for that forum, have needed to be parced over 2-4 posts, smacked into a 20-50 page debate, and instantly destroyed any preconceptions people had about such subjects ~ it's sometimes annoying to make posts such as those, but if you truly feel so strongly about a subject, posting a long, but infallible post, is sometimes the best way to deal with it, it'll save your fingers some time in the long run.

(I wonder if I can "nest" quotes in this forum....)

on the same foot, feminists and other such groups who continue to campaign so militantly are equally ignorant and insecure/weak minded as the people they are campaigning against (we're all human, eh?)

I don't agree. I am actually not a feminist, even though you may jump to that conclusion from reading this thread, but I think it is certainly a good thing that other women are standing up for our rights to been seen as equal.
You took this as an attack? and are defending yourself from it why? it was a fairly annonymous comment, it wasn't actually directed at you, You don't agree with the statement, or don't agree that you're feminist?
Because, as I said above, people who hold prejudices (though it is somewhat ironic to banbox such a large group) tend to be, ignorant, weak minded, and insecure.
Normally through lack of education.
Normally through lack of understanding.

I also put a sexist in the same box as a racist or homophobic, hence my mention of both in that post.
This would probably be where BD got his homophobic/racist comment from.

I am actually a HUGE anime fan. I love anime with a passion. I don't have a problem with how breasts are portrayed in anime at all. But we are not talking about anime, are we?
I am.
That avatar is an anime character, named Rae, and when I looked up the person who animated the avatar, I was actually quite right, in a way.....but uhh it was a girl... heh ^^;
She animated and drew the avatar in this way because she felt it signified Rae's personality.
This movement isn't sexual, either, if you look at the girls facial expression, it's a joyous/fun one....there's no classic anime ecchi blush is there? :P

I'm not avoiding anyones posts at all, as you can see.
I was trying to bring your attention to my posts so we could focus on some stuff, and get some stuff resolved.
Actually.....once you took your attention away from BD you turned back into something I can deal with fairly civily :P

so maybe you're only a foaming at the mouth feminist when there's a sexist around ;p

I don't particularly care for your attitude either. Your opinion of me as a moderator doesn't bother me either. As you should know, when a moderator objects to anything, their position is instantly questioned. It's something I'm used to.
Did you read my text?
You don't care about my attitude either?
When I said I care about yours?
BD calls me a bleeding heart, there are people I quite litterally attack on another forum because I know it's the only way to effect them psychologically, but that's a special case, I worry about their child, on a lot of levels.

I go out of my way to try to broaden scopes ...everyone's scopes.
A lot of the time that lands me in hot water, but I'm used to it, and expect it, take me as you please ~ this is who I am, and for as long as I post here it will most likely show in every single post I make (How regularly I post here is another matter since my ethusiam for SW died with SW-1 and 2 and with the horrific line of games LA have produced ...a few, but little late, quality titles coming out now, of which SWG is most definately not one ~ remember this is coming from a high level gamer.... who plays all genres including MMOs), from your posts up until now, you have seemed someone I don't deem the type to be a moderator, this post changed the oppinion I formed from the ones I read before I signed up.
If you didn't notice preconceptions are something I don't cling to.

However, if such behaviour isn't irregular at the very least I would still question your position, even though I haven't decided whether it is now, or not.

Bare in mind, though, that many of the official forums I visit (non-official = clan or anime fandoms mainly), the moderators are NOT ALLOWED to post their personal feelings, and the moderators are kept annonymous and seperate from their normal names.
Professional detatchment. ~ I don't know how it goes, here.

I'm glad you agree that a real one is not appropriate, and I realise you don't think an animated one is in the same league, but I do.
Simply because I rate the avatar as anime and you don't, I think that's the difference, considering animes certificates are rated on similar, but different levels of criteria to those of live action programs.


Good choice. What? You thought I had a problem with them?

I was posting those links to provide a little background on myself, since, the only likihood of anyone knowing me here, is them being Neocron, FreeSpace2, Tribes2, or UK Counter Strike refugees, or possibly Janains or from the same place BD knows me from.
Meh, there's a few other places I frequent but none of those posters would be here.
I disagree. The avatar is extremely childish. Believe me, I have never been insecure, nor will I ever be.
Perhaps both of us (if not everyone else as well) should stop stating oppinions as fact?
It makes both of us come off as arrogant, ignorant and extremists.
Part of the root of the problem I was talking about earlier, part of the reason you seem like a foaming at the mouth feminist.

I am not pushing my opinion on anyone. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Read the last quote, or possibly your own post whilst you quoted my text.
I admit, I did it as well, but, stating an oppinion as fact, whether you like it or not, is pushing your oppinion on others.
You are.

I put a lot of thought into my posts, do you?
Lovely context ripping you have there.

I think simply from the tone in my posts it should be obvious I put a great deal of thought into my own posts, I even said that, or rather suggestively placed that, comment in with the sincerity.

I completely agree that we are here to serve other members of this forum. How exactly am I not doing that? Because I don't want to see bouncing boobs all over the place, and penis's and whatever else people can come up, this makes me a bad person right?
It wouldn't be hard for me to do as you have done, with this paragraph as well ~ taking things out of context.

In short; You are not serving the community because you are pushing your own oppinions.
Whether you are oppinionated or not, surely you should be able to see that this, very act is not serving the members of the forum merely yourself.

I also said the avatar isn't appropriate for a family forum.
The people who rate the programs and material the avatar come from, and are paid, trained and qualified to do so, disagree.
That in itself makes you wrong.

My opinion that I think the avatar is degrading women remains the same.
I took it out of context (considering putting your first line with that) but, generally, when linked with the first line ~ again, it looks like you're pushing your oppinion on other people.
Not serving the members of the forum.

You don't think I've seen sexism? Heh.

As I said above, I have no problem whatsoever with anime.
Ever been in the army?

~ The avatar is, anime.
Again, this is one of the core points of my debate that you don't seem to be acknowledging.

Not once have I said that if a person uses that avatar, they are sexist. All my comments have been directed at the avatar itself.
How in the hell can an avatar drawn in innocense and by a girl about girls be sexist against girls?
Just the absurdity of it makes my head hurt.
In my oppinion, You're over conservative and over reacting.

Like I said, I love anime, but this discussion isn't about anime, it's about and animated bouncing boob avatar, in a forum, not in a film or tv series or whatever.
Wont repeat myself again you can scroll up.... (or I could just start copy pasting......)
however you can see what I was talking to Jay, about, earlier.

How I bring up my children is my business, and has nothing at all to do with this discussion. But I say again, I am not a feminist, even though I may come across as one.
Then a piece of advice from someone who did very well in psychology.
Try to change the way you come across, because your kids will absorb this, and will naturally look at the other sex with an "exclusion" thought in mind.
It's the same as when any white guy who thinks he's not racists walks down the street after getting off the bus to go to work, or in town, and sees a black person and looks away with a semi-guilty feeling for noting their presence more than anyone else because they're not supposed to note their prescence.
It's sub concious, and hard to control, but, it always, always, has large implications on ones child or children.

Again, I must disagree. The avatar does degrade women, whether you choose to see it or not.
Again, in your oppinion.
I don't see it as pornograpic either, just offensive.
Then your family forum comments are not valid what part of my earlier statements don't you understand? that the whole taking things out of context thing I warned you about....? .

I enjoy a decent debate too, when I'm not too tired after looking after two young kids and can find the time (which is rare).
That's an ironic thing to say for a person with a post count of 11.11 posts per day, currently posting at this kind of character count per post.
Someone who's amassed over 7000 posts in the space of two years.
I'd call that time.


I echo that when I say I go out of my way not to insult people, but obviously people will find offence in a lot of things they read that disagree with their opinion.
Oh you noticed that then...? like how certain people have been taking offence to some of the things you've been saying? or at least the way you are articulating? or least your hypocritical comments...? heh... ok I'll stop.

I change my avatar virtually every day, to mirror what I'm into or like at the time, but I have specifically kept this avatar this long to illustrate my point. How you find this avatar more offensive than one than has boobs bouncing up and down in it is quite honestly beyond me. My avatar in no way degrades the subject.
God that sounds familiar.
Anyway, like I said further up, I find your avatar more offencive because it's more detailed, more tempting, and more suggestive.

I'm obviously being made out to be some feminist prude who hasn't had a good seeing to in ages, but I assure you, I'm quite the opposite. I've "got my tits out for the lads" in IRC on more than one occasion, but this isn't IRC, nor is it an anime film, nor is it anything but a forum. The question is, is this avatar appropriate for this family forum, will it lead to other avatars that are worse than it with the excuse that if one person can have bouncing boobs, then why can't I have a bouncing penis or whatever else, and is this what everyone really wants this forum to become? The answer is left to the admins.

This discussion also seems to being going off on many tangents that have no relevence.
I would suggest you please read Matt's comment about hypocricy in feminists before you believe getting your kit off for guys in a chat room excludes you from their ilk.

again, you're defending yourself and not the point... which encourage me, to make oppinions on, and, comment on, yourself.
It's an egocentric world heh.

Have I yet, objected to a bouncing penis?
You can probably tell from at least one of my earlier comments that I most likely wouldn't on the right forum, however since live action images are rated seperately I would say YOUR image, wouldn't be PG.

MMORPG Politics forces you to learn to make your oppinions very clear and precise and leaves no room for misinterperatation, heh...

As for tangnts.

The only tangents I see from the topic of the avatar are comments made about the people posting in the thread, of which you are as guilty as anyone else.
Defending yourself instead of your points, also derails threads.

....You should know this stuff.....?

Everybody's keeping secrets, never let me get back.
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