Originally Posted by Angelos Kumani
Distorted great point. I think that if you really want to start examining the game you will start to see some very interesting things surfacing...the relationship between the Exile and Nihilus is just one of them. I think that it is important to look at the relationship between the other Sith Lords and the Exile as well...Sion the one that can't turn away form the force v. the Exile who did turn away from the force; Traya (either in the form of Atris or Kreia) the betrayer v. the Exile who either gives loyalty freely or demands loyalty...
The contrasts between the Exile and all of the sith lords seems to be magnified when you play LS, but are still present w/DS. How do those relationships help to define not only who the Exile is, but what he means to the KOTOR universe? And probably more importantly how does that relate to the Exile's relationship/comparison with Revan?
I think that the Exile's unique (and I say unique because I would be disappointed if this feature was used again) ability to influence an individual and either turn them LS or DS, gives him a unique responsibility. How else could you have a character that is so adept at forming force bonds but willing to sever his connection with the force...this thread has been talking about the importance of a third path - what is more important to a third path then understanding the universe w/o a connection to the force?
Yes, that's true - as when the Handmaiden asks the Exile what it is like to feel the force, you can respond saying that, "I only know what its absence feels like", and go on to describe what such a lack there of, "feels" like.
Kreia also (LS) says when in the Jedi courtyard to the Masters, "[The exile] has brought truth, and you condemn it? The arrogance!", and goes on to say, "Let me show you - you, who has forever seen life through the force. See it through the eyes of the Exile". They have only witnessed life through one extreme, blinding and limiting themselves to that of which they are afraid of. I've said it some other thread (or threads, I think) that I believe a huge theme to this game is that one cannot truly understand the force and the universe unless open to all its possibilities. Hang on...*goes to find other thread with more detail in it*
Ah, here ya go (it's from the thread http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=161361
in the KotOR 2 section) - this is how I expanded upon the idea more-so:
[I think the point here would be that the Jedi council learned nothing from the Mandalorian War. They still refused to review their own teaching methods, and didn't truly address the possibility that they also played a part in the downfall of so many Jedi, with their strict, confined and limited teachings. I think a large part of this game tries to say that in order to truly know the force, one must have had full access to both the binary opposites/extremes, and all that comes inbetween them. Evil must not be guarded against in theory, as when the threat of real evil is upon you, you lack the experience to appropriately deal with it, and may even just be overcome by it. It must be prepared for instead, and appropriately so (one must see for themselves how far you can fall, and the consequences of thus). The fact that it was instead made such a taboo by the Council (as though deeply fearing it), only made it all the more intriguing to those that had an inclination to thoughts that weren't limited to the Council's restrictive/short-sighted view.
This also puts doubts in the minds of the students, of the Council's own faith in the redemptive strength of the light side.
The repression, desire for power and the consequental confusion (for the lack of being guided on how to deal with it) they would have felt when confronted with true and purest evil for the first time would have been too much to bare and subsequently, resist.
The irony is, that despite her conservative views and manner, Atris is in fact a prime example of this process. In her case (actually being one of the Council) the boundaries to such forms of "wandering thought" were self-imposed on her part, but also such principles were driven into her as a young padawan too, and she rather just follows than leads by example in this case, but also takes it to an extreme at the same time. Her decison to embrace these values so strongly are based paramountly on fear. She fears what is unknown to her (as she was taught to) and fears what may be revealed to herself of her own true nature (like how she truly wished she had had the courage to have gone to war like the Exile did, and thus scorned and despised him for doing so, but it was really herself that her loathing was stemming from; it was only delusionally redirected towards the Exile to protect herself from certain truths - many of them personal). Therefore, when she collects and hoards the numerous Sith artifacts, and left to her own devices, it is like the great taboo knowledge she has guarded herself against, and been indoctrinated to dismiss, all her life, is now within her grasp - something that such a possibility has been playing on the back of her mind all the time, but also never actually prepared for. It is overwhelming and she cannot resist the urge to learn of what many others were denied. Consequently, she falls too.
It would be like breaking free, and losing all inhibitions. It's reverse psychology - like a child is fascinated by what the cake may taste like, after they are told specifically not to even so much as touch it. Surely it must be something of true wonder to be considered so special? Something deemed so unique or significant is always tempting (especially to the young, inexperienced and naive mind). This combined with the fact that this also surely shows the Council's own lack of trust within their own students (to not fall or even be tempted) accentuates the feeling of the desire to rebel and also expand your horizons and knowledge. The Council is seen as patronizing, arrogant and self-righteous, making the feelings of wanting to "escape" their limitations the ever more seemingly founded and justified.
The thing with Visas is that she was a Sith (raised in the force as one, and yes - always first and foremost), but she has travelled with the Exile and seen many things since - all the extremities and everything inbetween, and if you choose to lightside (as is the canon way anyway) and she is influenced well enough (which is, as you say, fairly easy really) than she, despite the ways and philosophies in which she initially learnt Jedi powers (Dark Jedi/Sith mentality) and her traumatic and painful past, she has still chosen to walk the path of the Light. She can spread her experience of her own saviour to the new Jedi, who will be stronger for it, for hearing both sides of the story for a change.
To add a little context to that last paragraph - it was because I was supporting the case that in the cut endings (where the Exile leaves someone to train more people in the force when he/she leaves at the end of the game), in the case of Visas being left to carry out this task - she is an appropriate choice IMO to fulfill the requirements needed to bring about a new, and wiser set of students and order, trained in every aspect of the force's nature (seeing the bigger picture). Oh - and this was in referance specifically to the LS/neutral ending. I have played a game, where my character was neutral (literally, at the end - he was perfectly dead-centre in alignment, as he started as). Here is a thread, with a link to his character profile screen: http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=161915
He's the character I named "Ednugari".
In the latest game I just played also, I was darkside but didn't kill any of the Jedi Masters, and still got the darkside ending - so this means that your alignment affects the overall outcome, and thus, being neutral (as my Ednugari character was) automatically gives you the LS/canon ending. So this argument for Visas as the trainer (and seeing as how influential the Exile is - thus aligning her with him) is indeed relevant.
Also, Master Vrook says you don't feel the force as a Jedi should, nor can you feel yourself, and goes on to describe you as a "Cipher" - a 'void' so to speak, or as Kreia phrases it, "A wound/echo in the force". The Exile has experienced life without the force (after feeling it with it, for so long), and has in turn become a being without the force - a vacuum. A black hole. An anti-energy.
Like you say (ying and yang): a 'negative', to a 'positive'.
This all IMO, adds further weight to your point, I believe.