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Old 04-12-2006, 12:56 PM   #90
SkinWalker
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Join Date: May 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IG-64
But that's exactly the point I was making, it isn't debatable, it's just a thread designed to pat yourself on the back about your beliefs.
Actually, if you bothered to read the thread, it was a post that ShadowTemplar started in response to some comments that another member made regarding the veracity of evolution and how 'intelligent' design was as viable a theory. It would seem that the member in question decided (wisely?) not to debate the fact of evolution. So it was actually intended to be a debate of sorts. However, I took advantage of the general nature of the thread title to provide some opportunity to provide an educational thread on the information that is available that supports and demonstrates the various assertions of science with regard to evolution.

Unfortunately, I'm trying to get into grad school and have had little time to devote to the thread itself, though I had some ideas which I discussed with ShadowT -who also has some academic responsibilities that are taking up his time, I believe. Needless to say, it hasn't moved forward yet and would probably become another thread entirely now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IG-64
I posted in this thread specifically to point that out. I just had the notion that the senate chambers were reserved for topics that would spark debates. And I came in here finding that no debate was invited. If I made a thread named "Creationism - and how we know it's right" that didn't invite a debate, i'd get floods of posts about evolution from all the rest of the (liberal) senate chamber-goers. And it'd probably end up being called spam and locked down.
Tell you what: I invite the debate. If you have an alternative assertion to the fact of evolution (the provable and proved fact of evolution), state it here. I'll gladly debate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IG-64
Look, first of all, I was not impressed with that post. I was excpecting more from you. You only showed your complete ignorance of the history and beliefs of Christianity. And that you obviously have no place in your heart for any other religion but your own.
I have no religion, sonny. Moreover, the reason I have no religion is that I'm educated in the historical , anthropological, psychological and sociological origins and causes of religion. I invite you to look at an educational work in-progress: The Scientific Study of Religion. Having said that, I challenge you to cite exactly where I have "showed" my "complete ignorance of the history and beliefs of Christianity" so that I might clarify or correct myself. Since this is a very blunt assertion, it would be unfair not to qualify it and failing to do so would reveal what I suspect is the true nature of the words: a simple derision from a frustrated believer in an out-dated superstition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IG-64
Yes, that's right, monkey boy, your beliefs require just as much faith as mine.
First, I will remind you that such comments are considered insults and against LF rules. I'm not sure if you were implying that I lack intelligence, bipedalism, have a prehensile tail, or that I favor an arboreal lifestyle. However, I'll tolerate them directed toward me and I'll promise to to respond in kind by referring to you as an ovicaprid, etc. Just don't let me see you make a similar comment to other mods or members.

Second, which "beliefs" do I have that require "faith?" I have none. The only "beliefs" I might have are balanced by the weight of evidence. Faith is belief without evidence. I challenge you to clarify this as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IG-64
You obviously have it engrained into your mind that evolution can do no wrong.
Then you obviously don't understand my "beliefs" nor do you seem willing. I hold that science, which explains evolution, must be potentially wrong! Indeed, this is a strength of science: that it can recognize when there is an assertion that is wrong and allow for revision. Religious superstitions, while they *do* change, are far more resistant to revision, often violently so. Evolution isn't a discipline of science, it is an explanation for how the fantastic diversity of life on this planet came to be in a gradual nature over a long period of time. Biology, chemistry, astronomy, anthropology, geology, physics, etc are all disciplines that contribute to the explanation that life evolved on this planet. In most cases, the mountains of data that these disciplines have uncovered regarding evolution were arrived at independently and yet they are completely cooberative!

Quote:
Originally Posted by IG-64
But I don't care how much "evidence" your scientists can gather. Evolution is neither provable nor unprovable, just like Christianity, and many other religions.
I have no scientists. None work for me any more than they do yourself. But your pejorative use of "your scientists" serves only to distance yourself from the mainstream of society and cement yourself in a superstitious sect of a given religious cult without regard to the facts that exist. Clearly, you have an anti-science worldview that is becoming popular among believers in the paranormal from religious superstitions to ESP and alien abductions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IG-64
You might have some predjudice about how much I know about evolution. But I have have seen your "evidence." And I am not impressed.
I'm not convinced you've "seen" the evidence or, if you have, you were obviously incapable or unwilling to comprehend it. Perhaps you bit off more than you can chew or perhaps you had little interest to begin with, most likely deterred by the indoctrination of a religious dogma that specifically targets science as an evil, atheist institution bent on bringing down the institution of religion. In other words, you most likely looked at the evidence (though I still question how much) with an pre-set expectation that it was false, and did not bother to appropriately question the validity. If I'm wrong, I challenge you to cite what "evidence" you've been exposed to and why you found it unconvincing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IG-64
Remember, I have actually educated myself on both Christianity and evolution. I am a person and I am not delusional. I can be just as smart as you'll ever be. I have opened my mind to evolution, and I am sorely dissapointed.
I've no interest in questioning your intellect. I genuinely hope you are smarter than I -indeed, I'm really not that smart at all in my own opinion. But I have been educated in many disciplines of science as well as many religious beliefs. I've certainly *not* limited myself to just christianity and evolution. But what has dissapointed you about science, specifically? What revelations of scientific study have you found to be less than genuine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IG-64
I'm not going to say anything more about creation because obviously that's not wanted in this thread, and you're clearly not that educated on the matter anyways, so i'm not going to waste my time. I'm also not going to say anything about evoution because I know you'll always think it's without flaw no matter what anyone says about it. So it's rather pointless to try.
I think you're incapable of speaking about either subject. This isn't a bad thing, really, and I don't fault you for it. Some simply haven't the ability to defend their beliefs -perhaps they are content to simply believe without allowing for critical thought. Certainly this is far easier and simpler and I respect that choice. I do, however, fault your willingness to make derisive and pejorative comments without supporting them. Derision has it place but needs qualification and clarification.


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