View Single Post
Old 05-05-2006, 04:08 PM   #32
Prime
Am I a truck or robot?
 
Prime's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cybertron
Posts: 12,355
Current Game: Skyrim, Macross PS2
10 year veteran! LF Jester Veteran Modder Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
Yeah, the EU has frankly turned the whole situation completely ridiculous.
That's an understatement. The part that I find silly is that there are now all sorts of retcons to try (unsuccessfully IMO) and make the number at least someone reasonable. So there is a big convoluted mess when instead they could have changed one number.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
Essentially they are asking you to believe that say, one Delta Force soldier could take on all the soldiers of the entire earth... and win. I don't care how incompetent the soldiers of the entire earth are... that's just unbelievable!
Not only that, but G-canon says it is simply not the case. I can't remember the exact line, but the ATOC novelization mentions that clones are not vastly superior to droids (dispite the Kaminoans' claims). Since there are billions of droids, 3 million clones after the first year doesn't work. And at the Battle of Geonosis, out of 200 Jedi only a handful survived, and I think we can agree that a Jedi is superior to a clone. IIRC there were 200,000 droids at that battle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
To make sense of the scenes I just ignore the EU stuff, and assume there are a lot more clones already out there than implied by the movie and with lots of support troops as well (but you need lots of clones, you can't call it the Clone War if only 1% of your troops are clones, can you?).
We do know that there are additional forces than just clones, mainly natives on the various planets. We see this on Utapau in particular. But most of the battles that are depicted in the EU consist mainly of clones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Alec
well actually, I alwys think its the clones who are doing the majority of the fighting. Support personel and such are still filled mostly by non-clones.
Sure. But in the films we see clones doing pretty much everything, from piloting to starship gunnery crews and so on. We know that they do more than act as simple soldiers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoiuyWired
In episode 2 they said 1.2 million UNITS, what if one unit is 100 or 1000 clones, that would even the odds slightly. But they would still be smashed.
There are several sources, including Karen Traviss's 3 million clones after the first year, that state that 1 unit = 1 clone. There are many reasons why I think this number is simply incorrect:

3 million clones can be transported by 188 Acclimators. Leaving none for Venators, stationing on planets, or crewing anything, including the acclimators.

The NEC says this about Battle of Muunilist: "The Republic countered with sheer numbers, sending hundreds of assault ships, each one groaning from the weight of troopers and war machines. Many vessels reached the surface only as smoldering hulks; others found themselves cut off from their drop zones, forced to make landings behind enemy lines." Technically assault ship means an Acclimator. That means that the entire clone army was at that battle. Leaving none for anywhere else in the galaxy. According to the EU, this is not true.

One retcon has been that a clone was worth about 200 battle droids to justify the small number. That implies that, in ROTS on Utapau, where there are "thousands of battle droids", the Kenobi would only need a handful of clones. If there were 10,000 droids, he would only need about 50 clones. Yet we see several acclimators flying overhead. Was this complete overkill? Even if there were a million droids, they would only need about 5000 clones, which is one fairly empty acclimator. That ratio just doesn't work.

3 million isn't an unheard of number of soldiers for an army on Earth. Did the GAR not protect any of their holdings after they won them? Yes, there were non-clones involved in the Clone Wars, but in the films apart from Utapau everything we see is done by clones (pilots, crewman, soldier, etc.). And according to the ROTS novel, "the new governors are arriving with full regiments of clone troops…what they call security forces.” So after the war they are used as occupying forces. Yes there can be more than the 3 million number from 2 years before, but how many more? They have a lot of occupying to do. From ANH novelization, Tarkin tells us “This station is the final link in a new-forged Imperial chain which will bind the million systems of the galactic Empire together once and for all.”

Even if the Republic had gained an order of magnitude more clones in two years, that is still only 30 clones to occupy a system (not planet). Yes, not every system needs occupying, but the Emperor is trying to enforce his rule, so it is reasonable to assume that most systems would need to be controlled. Even if it is only a third of the systems, probably the upper bound is 90 troopers per system, assuming all those extra clones. At just double the growth, we are looking at 3-9 clones per system.

Yikes.

Prime is offline   you may: quote & reply,