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Old 10-20-2006, 03:56 AM   #12
Totenkopf
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First, what is/was MILORG? A Norwegian partisan group? I don't understand what you mean by: "Oh, and the reason it's moral practice..". I don't discuss anywhere whether battlefield executions are in fact moral or not.

While you're looking for the provision in question in the Geneva Convention, perhaps you might as well provide your cite for the Declaration of Human Rights and show specifically how it's being violated w/o resorting to vague generalizations. Statements like "even if..." tend to tell someone you're not really sure of your facts.

Well, the abortion industry still gets a lot of milage out of the expression "they ain't humans".

I'm pretty sure, no offense, that you have little or no grasp on how military operations are planned. You are essentially claiming that the US government is ordering it's troops to indiscriminately target civilians for what, fun I suppose? I'd like to see the proof beyond conjecture and wild sounding allegations. Mind you, the critical word here is target. Civilian casualties have often been the regretable side affect of any modern war. Sometimes they were specifically targeted for effect, as during WW1 and WW2. Sometimes they are what are euphemistically called collateral damage. Sometimes, as in guerilla style conflicts (as many claim Iraq is now), civilains are not in fact inncoent at all but supporting the enemy or are forced to act as shields for them.

"To strike a rough analogy, the Chinese water torture of old (unless those dang Commies are still using it, you never know) sounds pretty mild, too. "Just water dripping on your forehead, come on, what's so wrong with water, haven't you ever taken showers?!". But it's still recognized by many as the most painful and horrific method of torture ever to be devised." I'm sorry, but of whom do you speak? Looks to me like the last part of that statement is rather ludicrous. Seems to me that taking a red hot poker to someones privates, or even hooking them(genitals) to a source of electricity is even more diabolical. I'm sure there are more insidious forms of torture than the Chinese H2O method.

"Remember how upset the Americans were when the Chinese detained a crew of spies that'd been caught when their AWACS went down over Chinese territory? So it seems to me that Americans caught spying should be swiftly released, but foreigners caught by Americans "spying" (which in neo-conish seems to consist of not gathering information, but staying in certain mosques like the Tipton Three, or shooting at an occupying force) can be tortured." What exactly is your point here? Comparing these two is apples and oranges.

Just since you're not clear on the subject, spies are people that disguise themselves in the uniform of their opponents or in civilian garb. Since the aircrew in question was in military uniform, they do not fall under the classification of spies. Nice try. This goes for peacetime or wartime.

I can pretty much sum up your position. Appeasement is the only way to deal with intractable opponents. Of course, that didn't really work in '38 did it? Oh, and also, you cannot hurt anyone anywhere, even if you suffer a death of 1000 cuts, b/c the rest of the world will get squeamish and hate you.

Also, a lot of your claims read like the jacket of a michael moore movie. The fact remains that there were multiple reasons for going back into Iraq that were cited, but that opponents of the renewed conflict (a cease fire agreement means that the war never offically ended, hence no vioaltion of international law) like to fixate stictly on the nuclear component b/c no such weapons have apparently been found yet. Sadam was in constant violation of the cease fire agreement, which allowed us to resume the conflict, which was sanctioned by the UN in the first place back in '90/91.

"You could be guilty of dropping an atomic bomb on Beijing..." was actually your scenario, not mine.

NK is actually the man kicking the lion in your scenario, b/c KJI is incapable of destroying (hence "dead me" as you put it) the US. Besides, Clinton ultimately gave NK it's nuclear sabre to rattle. But seriously, KJI has nothing to lose by bluffing and blustering. His people aren't going to rise up against him even if he is faced down. He's like a child that keeps using the same tactics to get his way b/c overly indulgent adults don't put their feet down.

Hate to burst your bubble, but Afghanistan wasn't the only place harboring islamic terrorist networks seeking to harm America and even Europe for that matter. Frankly, you're incorrect about the status of US military might vis-a-vis our threats. Clinton's castration of the US military over 8 years puts us in a weaker position to confront our enemies. Less of course you mean that we just nuke everyone that threatens us. I guess we still have enough bombs to do that.

What does the ticking time bomb myth have to do with anything? I didn't necessarily stipulate that the situation was a scenario right out of the series 24.

Your comment about the necessity of further widening the rules about sexual harassment and such is illuminating and nonsensical. But then maybe your referring to Norwegian law, or perhaps the EU. Though, as you said, grist for another mill.

Given that we don't know the particulars about many/all the detainees at gitmo, it's rather hard to answer such a question. The presumption of guilt could be due to their being caught in the act, named as part of a conspiracy by another party or victims of mistaken identity or caught up in a sweep due to intelligence collected at home or from abroad.
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