First of all, I find it pathetically hilarious that the general flavour of debate on this topic has changed from "Are our governments committing flagrantly illegal acts in invading a sovereign nation without international approval" to "Those darned Iraqi's don't deserve the gifts
we've been struggling to give them! Should we leave them in their vile uncivilised cesspit?"
It's the height of foolishness.
Originally Posted by Emperor Devon:
(1. Democracy is not a natural thing in the Middle East. It's not a traditional form of government there. Not everyone likes freedom, and on a different note, for some good reasons.
Democracy isn't a natural thing anywhere
, it would seem, Devon. We certainly don't live in democracies. Both the UK and the US have electoral college arrangements in terms of general elections, we both suffer the indignity of having our leadership candidates being chosen by internal party mechanisms rather than the populous, and certainly in the case of the UK, (and probably in the case of the US) we have a government that routinely ignores the majority opinions of the populous they're sworn to serve
So perhaps we don't "like freedom" either.
But your entire train of thought is beside the point. We were never going to be able to create "stable regimes" in either Afghanistan or Iraq. I and many others remarked on this before the conflicts started. It's almost unheard of for an invading force to quosh ALL resistance to the extent necessary to "stabilise" the country in the way we understand the term. Why, even in the case of Northern Ireland, which has been part of the UK for what, four-hundred years or so? It's not "stable" yet. And it's right next door to us.
Nobody who knew any facts ever expected the mission to "install democracy" to succeed. Including our governments, unless they're morons. And I don't think they're morons. Democracy for Iraq wasn't the goal.
Once we accept that a happy-go-lucky lovely democracy is not going to emerge from the rubble of the countries we've destroyed, the question remains: Should we bug out?
Well, what do you think. Do you think an illegally invading force has a responsibility to stick around and help clear up some of the damage it's caused, even if it costs hundreds and hundreds of British and American lives? I think it does. If you think it doesn't, there's something wrong with your sense of moral fairness.