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Old 11-27-2006, 05:37 AM   #167
Spider AL
A well-spoken villain...
 
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Help, help, I'm stapled to my workstation.
Posts: 2,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi:

I wasn't referring to anonymous coffins (which the government has shown--I saw a news clip about how soldiers are brought home to their final resting places).
Your knowledge on the topic appears incomplete.

The US government has blocked the release of all such images since 1991. Even anonymous coffins. The only reason they were finally FORCED to show the images in April 2005 (of anonymous coffins, out of context) was a dedicated campaign fought in the court system. Censorship at its worst.

Ref: http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/...473506,00.html

And no doubt if the US government had their way, they would never show such images. Only popular movements hold the regime to account in this respect, as in all respects.

Nice bit in that article about ol' Cheney and Bush senior by the way. Very revealing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi:

You can assume that, but it would be incorrect. I have young children to protect. I want the risk of something happening to them to be as low as I can possibly make it. And if it means that some anti-war groups aren't able to get their yukks out of seeing a bunch of coffins, too bad.
How DARE you. How DARE you suggest that "anti-war groups" would "get their yukks" from seeing the images of young mens' coffins returning home from an illegal and immoral war that has claimed their lives. How DARE you. I am sickened by this ignorant and insulting remark.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi:

Seeing as this thread is about the FCC and censorship and not particularly the war in Iraq itself, I addressed that rather than violence in the world. However, you're making an incorrect assumption that I don't 'campaign against the violence in the world'. I'm mandated to report child abuse in particular, and any cases where I believe assualt/battery/other major illegal actions are happening (which helps cover the elder abuse angle). And I have done just that.
And it's good that you've fulfilled your obligations as a public servant. But that doesn't alter the fact that your stance is rooted in a fundamental double standard. You said: "And frankly, with all the violence in the world, maybe we all could do with a little less of it on our TVs anyway." while you have been tacitly approving of the single greatest act of violent international aggression in recent years, namely the US/UK invasion of Iraq. Total double standard, railing against imaginary violence on the idiot-box while not railing against the invasion of Iraq.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi:

It would be that simple if parents were able to be home with their kids a lot more. A lot of single parents work long hours or 2 jobs, or both parents have to work just to keep a roof over their families' heads. A number of studies have shown violence in TV increases violence in kids. We as a society have a responsibility to protect those who can't protect themselves. Children don't always have the ability to determine what's appropriate content. I'd love to say that the v-chip is working at my home, but a lot of the time it blocks things incorrectly.
You don't need a chip, you need a cupboard that locks. If you're not around to supervise the child's use of the TV... he/she doesn't get to use the TV.

It's very similar to IT this respect. I'm sick and tired of "concerned parents" campaigning for censorship in video games, greater leglislation for control of internet content... all because they're not "concerned" enough to bother supervising their kid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi:

Then buy cable. Most of the violent movies are crap anyway and not worth my time or money.
Here you show a lack of taste and a lack of understanding with regards to cinema and the history of cinema. Some of the greatest, most influential, most critically acclaimed movies of all time have also been the most violent. The revisionist westerns of the seventies and nineties, pretty much every De Niro picture, from 'The Deer Hunter' to 'Taxi Driver',... the list is endless.

Hell, what would Shakespeare be without the violence? 'Titus Andronicus'... 'Macbeth'... You wouldn't have much text left if you excised the violence from them.

Violence has been an integral part of drama since time immemorial. Denying this is as futile as denying... oh... US war crimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi:

Since my tax dollars help run the government and the government regulates the airwaves, I do have the right to campaign against violence on the airwaves.
Ah! The old "I pay my taxes... so I should get to decide what you can and cannot do and see and watch!" fallacy.

Yes Jae, in a society with free speech you have the right to campaign for anything, even campaign for the limiting of the free speech that allows you to campaign. Of course, I have the right to respond and to show exactly how immoral your stance is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi:

And as a taxpayer myself and the person who was related to the one who made the ultimate sacrifice, I think I have the right to deny the public permission to view the coffin. He is no longer in the Army when he's dead. The decision on what to do with his remains once he's gone is mine and my family's, not some media out let who would do heaven knows what with any images.
The idea that "Once a soldier's dead he's no longer a public servant!" doesn't fly. He died for an illegal war that the public is paying for. Once again, the public's right to see ALL the consequences of wars fought in their name is inviolable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi:

I disagree. I also pay taxes, and I theoretically have just given up the primary breadwinner in my family to the country, regardless of whether someone thinks the war is immoral or not. My need and right for privacy and the fact that I've just endured The Sacrifice is more than enough to outweigh whatever the public feels they're 'entitled' to. I live in the US where we honor individual rights as well as society rights.
Once again, you are asserting that your right to withhold images of the coffin outweighs the entire US public's right to see it as it is a result of a war started in their name. Which is frankly ludicrous.

Jae's right to hide the truth vs. the entire US public's right to see the truth... Hmmm. Moral quandary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi:

I don't appreciate defamatory, flaming comments. Those need to stop. Now.
Show me some "defamatory, flaming comments". I've made none.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi:

'Ludicrous' I can live with. However, implying I have paranoia, which has been considered a mental disorder for a long time, when in fact I have never been diagnosed as such, is very problematic and attacks my character.
Oh do be serious. I called your statement amounting to "If we show pictures of the soldiers coffins, their family home could well be broken into and the family victimised!" ludicrous, bordering on paranoia. Which it clearly is. As for "implying that you're paranoid", that's your inference, not my implication.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi:

I would argue that condescension is not exactly the best way to foster a continued debate, even if we all do have the rights of free speech.
It's typical for pro-war people to call anti-war people condescending. I think it has something to do with the shock of having their dearly-held pro-war delusions challenged.

--

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy Allen``:

You really want to put an end to the war? The best way is to attack Bush.
I'm going to be awfully charitable to you Nancy, and ignore all your personal attacks. But I will address this sentence. Bush is a figurehead. You must stop obsessing over Bush. He's not a policymaker. Start obsessing over ALL the architects of the war. Some politicians, yes, but corporate entities too. A whole mess of people. That's why we talk about the "Bush regime" or the "US government". We don't just talk about Bush.


[FW] Spider AL
--
Hewwo, meesa Jar-Jar Binks. Yeah. Excusing me, but me needs to go bust meesa head in with dissa claw-hammer, because yousa have stripped away meesa will to living.
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