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Old 11-29-2006, 10:16 AM   #35
Mace MacLeod
@Mace MacLeod
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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Right-o. Where to start.

By the way, what's the point of throwing this up again all the time?

Originally Posted by Nancy, once again...
The reason why I quoted that multilingual hissy fit was as a reminder of your own behaviour. You're calling me a troll and making snide comments about the opinions behind my comments, yet you blithely ignore what emotionally incontinent tantrums like that make you look like. It's childish for me to quote it, but it's not childish for you to post it? I don't think so. Nobody's trying to turn people against you, you don't need our help for that.
This is quite obviously not on the original topic, but it's right here.
What's right there? You took some quotes of my posts then said nothing about them, aside from "Oh, I guess you didn't say that." To deal with a few of my statements, yes, the US did nothing about Saddam Hussein gassing the Kurds when he was actually doing it. Yes, the US eventually had no choice but to leave Vietnam in 1973 after getting their butts kicked all over the country. Yes, aside from aid shipments to Britain, the US did nothing about the Axis powers until being attacked directly at Pearl Harbour in Dec 1941. These aren't judgement calls or opinions, they're bald statements of historical fact.

As for my assertion that the US intended civilian casualties in Iraq, you yourself say:
I think the point however is the inevitable and tragic loss of life that occurs in any war.
And this is how. It's not that the guys at the Pentagon sat around a table rubbing their hands together saying, "Whee! Let's go slaughter us some defenceless civilians! Yee-haw!", it's by the simple act of okaying the invasion of a sovereign country they knew full well that civilian deaths would be inevitable. That's why you're not supposed to start wars unless you absolutely have to, and the US did not absolutely have to invade Iraq.
From day one people have protested the war, and that voice grew louder and louder until now the Democrats have been voted in. Should action have been taken sooner? I think the only reason it hasn't is because people saw Kerry as worse. No one has attempted impeachment however.
Dealing with the war or US foreign policy in general isn't just about voting Democrat or Republican every few years, it's also about holding the administration in power accountable for its actions while it's in office. Bush is just one guy at the very top of the pyramid, and under him is a vast beaurocratic, political and industrial machine that moves to its own rhythm, quite out of sight and mind of most people. That's how US soldiers can go marching off to war with most of the population scratching their heads wondering why.
Afghanistan and Iraq I believe were the targets of a regime change and the leaders in those countries needed to be removed, but with Iraq especially it all turned out horribly wrong. We should never have gone into Iraq in the first place.
Afganistan is a completely different kettle of fish entirely to Iraq. The US went after Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda, who to the best of their knowledge were being sheltered by the Taliban in Afganistan. Going after someone who attacked you is not the same as just arbitrarily deciding to get rid of someone and trying to think up a good reason to do it. IMO, these situations are not comparable.
So make as much noise as you possibly can, not just online, in rallies and marches. Organise anti war protests, petitions, send every dollar you have to Afghanistan and Iraq and lobby others to do the same. If you feel so strongly over the issue stop whining about how unfair it all is and do something positive about it.
Well, this is just an online discussion forum, isn't it? Maybe we are out there making noise and doing positive things, only you're just not seeing it because all this forum is for is abstract debating.
It upset Jae terribly and you couldn't care less.
Jae's a big girl who's more than capable of defending herself and her beliefs. She can deal with it.
You think it's harsh to say the small sample of quotes I've posted is trolling? Well they've upset quite a few people and it's nothing less than what you said to me.
Well, wah. If people can't handle strong opinions that differ from their own, this is not the place to come.

Be considerate to others or I will bite your torso and give you a disease!
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