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Old 12-10-2006, 07:21 AM   #166
S_W_LeGenD
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Join Date: Dec 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Not sure, but I'd be surprised if they were less than Yoda's, absorbing power apparently being what Nihilus does best.
An assumption and thats it. Not very convincing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Electricity damage is electricity damage, no matter how you deliver it. You're either protected from or you're not. So coming from different angles might not matter a whole lot, unless you're using some sort of physical shield to deflect it, which is not relevant in this case.
Electricity damage is deadly to living bodies. It causes horrible burns and continuous zapping from it will kill an individual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
20-30 yards is already pushing it with a war quite literally going on outside.
Still is safe distance. Sion was only 7-8 feet away when Nihilus launched his attack on him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
That's an impressive display of force lightning and no mistake. But yes, lightning does come close to that. The arc is just wider than usual.
No! normal Lightning does not comes close to that. Their are several Lightning bolts in Sidious's attack and this does not happens in case of normal Lightning attack (because normal Lightning cannot hit so many individuals). Get your eyes checked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Well, I can scarcely argue with you there, because the "hit points" or "vitality" of d20 games is one of my own pet peeves with that system. Lightning should paralyze and cause horrible burns and so, as it did with Luke, but the game rules don't reflect that sort of thing at all, which is one reason why I really hate d20 rules. Still, if we abandon them completely, then we have no basis for discussion. Or we get to claim whatever with want to. Neither of which is very enlightening.
So you are also having troubles with rules applied in "Game Mechanics" as well. So why not admit this in clear terms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Actually, I've always thought that Obi-Wan used Force Heal or some version of it on Luke, when he put his hand over him after the Sand People attack in Episode IV. Isn't it odd that Luke is struck down and lies there unconscious, apparently lifeless, but when Obi-Wan bends over him, he wakes up immediately? Definitely something going on there, I think. So it's not as if there is no basis in canon for claiming that. And if we accept Force Resistance, then it's easy to accept Force Immunity, since it really is just a more powerful version of the same ability. I'd say it's about the same ability as you call Force Deflect. Besides, I can find no entry for Force Deflect on Wookieepediea, whereas Force Immunity is right here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_Immunity
Force Immunity is not canon and we don't see this power being demonstrated in Novels and Movies. And Novels and movies are greater canon materials then Games.

Wookieepedia is not 100% perfect and I have mentioned this before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
It was, because Sidious never got to fire that lightning attack fully. He kept pushing for it, but then so did Yoda. The result was not that Yoda was fried. No. The result was that resonance of power between the two caused a burst that sent them both flying. Yoda just happened to be unlucky that this sent him flying to the bottom of the senate hall, whereas Sidious was able to hold onto the side of the "chair." Clearly the power is not unstoppable, and given Sidious' level of power with this ability, it's rather impressive that Yoda was able to keep it at bay at all. But he did.
Yoda managed to counter it but he was semi-successful. But in case of Dooku, he properly countered his Lightning attack, so difference is clear.

And Yoda fell apart and where he actually fell is irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Actually, most of them do, only you might not notice that, since the game balances all your enemies to reflect your new power level, and therefore nothing seems to change. If you don't want to argue game rules, then fair enough, but if you do, you should at least take a look at how those mechanics work first. It's not as if there aren't plenty of game guides out there that explain it all.
Yes! I am not using "Game Mechanics" and I will not do that because some rules used in "Game Mechanics" are not accurate in terms of Canonical Reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Yes, but my point is that the rules don't reflect that possibility. D20 combat rules is just boring dice-rolling until someone drops dead. There is no surprise or strategy in them IMHO, which is my major problem with them.
So "Game Mechanics" have its own flaws and are not ideal in debates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
You have claimed it, but you have not convinced me. It still seems obvious to me that Yoda blocked Sidious' attack. If you look carefully, you'll even see that Yoda wants to jump Sidious with his lightsaber, but Sidious zaps him, knocking his lightsaber out his hands. Yoda is right on the edge already, YET HE DOESN'T FALL OVER. In fact, had Yoda moved backwards at all, he would have fallen down already, so clearly lightning doesn't strike as strongly as you suggest. Sidious then pushes the attack, and Yoda begins to deflect it. As Sidious pushes forward and pours power into the attack, you'll note Yoda deflecting it and befriely leaning backwards from the assault, before he then begins actually PUSHING THE ATTACK BACK ON SIDIOUS. Indeed, he pushes it all the way back to Sidious' very hands, at which point the collision of power between the two of them "erupts" in a burst that sends them both flying. If you want to see it, the entire bit begins exactly 1 hour 48 minutes and 55 seconds into the movie on my dvd. And yes, I've just checked it again to make sure I'm right
Yoda blocked Sidious attack with his "Force Deflect" ability and not with the Light Saber. Their is clear distinction between these two blocking abilities. And Yoda's defense was semi-successful and finally he falls apart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Ah, "uber-power not available to other people." Always nice. But wait, Obi-Wan deflected Dooku's lightning attack with HIS lightsaber in Episode II. Although you can claim that Sidious is more powerful, that does seem to speak against your point that Windu doing so is completely unique for that character alone, I think.
Obi-Wan does not knows Vaapad. And Dooku's mastery in Lightning is not on par with that of Sidious. My points are clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Just because Yoda didn't pull it off does not mean that it's not possible. Obi-Wan did it against Dooku, and Yoda and Sidious are both stronger than either of them.
Yoda is the most powerful Jedi in the movies. His defensive abilities are far better then that of Luke in ROTJ. So if Yoda failed to block Sidious's Lightning with his Light Saber, then Luke stands no chance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
But suddenly Force Storm is instant in canon? Why? Because otherwise your argument is flawed? As others have pointed out, we actually don't know that Revan's use of Force Storm then wasn't a continuous lightning attack against the One's warriors and beasts either.
Force Storm attack has been described in a narration and narrations are canon. And also Force Storm has been demonstrated by Darth Bane and this was mentioned in POD Novel, and Novels are higher source of canon then Games. So Force Storm is clearly canon power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Although Leia that power is called Force Storm, it clearly is not the Force Storm power you have been describing here. And we certainly have no basis for claiming that Revan has that power. Especially not since Luke reveals that having used that power, Palpatine has unleashed a chaos that even he cannot control. Revan was always careful about that sort of thing - always the strategist, he never unleashed anything he couldn't control himself. That's why he never used the Star Forge to its full potential, after all.
I know that Force Storm (demonstrated in DE by Sidious) is a different power. But my point is that not all canonical powers are limited to a certain radius and this power is one such example. And I have never claimed that Revan has this power so stop putting words in my mounth as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
So even then there are limits, because even Palpatine couldn't control that power, and obviously it did not destroy the entire Alliance fleet. Also, by merely focusing on separating Palpatine from his use of the power, Luke and Leia turn it on Palpatine himself. As impressive a display of destruction as it is, you really do have to admit that this very force storm is also what destroys Palpatine himself in that confrontation. So I don't think it's a power that Revan would ever use, and certainly not in a casual encounter with a few rakatan warriors and other beasts. And that's assuming Revan even has the power, which I find highly doutbful.
Leia used "Battle Meditation" ability to stop it. Now Nihilus does not have this ability or does he?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Ah, but you have no canonic use of Force Storm to support that claim. The only canonic use of Force Storm you have mentioned is a description by The One, and we have no idea how instant or continuous that Force Storm was. Force Lighting is instant in the game mechanics, just as Force Storm is. But you say lightning is more continuous in canon. Might the same not then also apply to force storm? That would seem to be a reasonable conclusion to me.
Yes! I have provided two things that make Force Storm canon:

- Narration.
- POD Novel.

And in case you forgot that The One also said that Revan's attack came from above (Sky) and then hit his warriors. Normal Lightning does not hits individuals from above.

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD; 12-10-2006 at 07:59 AM.
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