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Old 12-11-2006, 04:39 AM   #24
I forgot.... what?
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Originally Posted by Lathain Valtiel

I'm easily the most frequent gun user we have so far who plays this mod with the exception of Jawa Bond. But guess what? I DON'T ACT IN ANY WAY MAX DESCRIBES, AND NEITHER DOES BOND! In about the ten-plus games I've played I've never once pulled out a lightsaber, and the two or so games I saw Bond he didn't do it either. My config is as follows:
I said "gunner" not "Jedi. You fight dirty but not that dirty, I agree. But this is what gunners do, and have done in my experience of fighting them.

Originally Posted by Lathain
And actually, Jump 3 stinks. I don't use it. I don't use Jetpack either. I also don't use push, pull, or lightning 3 except as impulse buys for defense (they do block enemy uses of those powers, no?).
The point isn't if you use it, the point is that it will be used and that it will make Jet fuel obsolete. Since you can for example use all of your jetfuel on a target, jump away or stay in the air as long as needed and then just finish them off with the regenerated jet fuel. There's tonnes of strategies that can be used with Jump 3 and I have seen them being used.

I know for a fact that I've RECENTLY (within the last 2 months) had more human to human OJP than anyone else here, I've seen strategies and
Force powers as well as gadgets being used in ways that you wouldn't expect.
This is what I'm talking about, I'm not talking about what Lathain did, I'm talking about what generic gunner/cross class #x can do.

I'm not opposed to crossclasses having force powers if they are given to them in moderation. Gunners can actually CHOOSE if they want to use their FP or not in a fight. In essence they don't need it, FP is a Jedi thing, and there was a fatigue threshold added at 10FP to stop Jedi from spazzing and running and jumping too much. Gunners won't have this problem as they can switch between Jet fuel and Jump 3 indefinetly to escape ANY kind of fight they want. Pure Jedi don't have this commodity, but this should not be a problem if this mod was as Movie realistic as Razor originally intended it to be.

I lately don't even know what he intended it to be, the perequisites for an idea to get in kept changing weekly, sometimes daily ":|".

Originally Posted by Lathain
And frankly... so WHAT if you have to go into dueling mode? That's what it's there for! You can't reasonably expect an enemy to just watch and let you finish your duel when he can just kill you both when distracted.
Going into dueling mode is like having one hand chopped off and getting told to go row a boat. You can't use Force powers, you have a distance handicap, you glow like a mofo, and most of all, anyone can wait untill your duel ends to quickly backstab you blow you up.

It's not fair that Jedi should be forced into duel mode to have a duel, if so, gunners should be forced in gun fight mode to have a gun fight.

Originally Posted by Lathain
It's BS for you to quote Luke and say 'If he hadn't focused on his powers solely he wouldn't be a Jedi Master', and then say my Obi-Wan example doesn't work, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SAME KIND OF EXAMPLE. I could just as easily say: "Luke is Luke, and he took awhile to develop his powers. I don't suppose you want us to take that long to develop Force ability?" We don't fight 'armies of creatures' either.c I already said that by choosing not to take gun skills you can spend points on Force skills, this is obvious and that's really the reward.
I was using the "training in something" analogy to explain how our points work, as that seems to be the general consensus among the players I play with each or each other day. I said hordes and armies of creatures because that's what the deal was in the movies, and as I remember, a lot of ideas from people didn't get through to OJP because they weren't movie-realistic enough, which leads me to believe that OJP wants to be a movie-realistic mod. In the movies, Jedi did do this, and yes they were known in using a BLASTER RIFLE OR PISTOL, but not detpacks, thermals, rocket launchers, flamethrowers, sentry droids or jetpacks. If they want too, that's fine, but all that time learning how to use something like that properly is going to keep them away from "Jedi Training", so they can train either of their "sides" but if they train one, the other will deteriorate, atrophy or if they're lucky, just not move.

The reward is having every path that is chosen, be it gunner or Jedi have some kind of benefit over the other.
Now I don't have a problem with cross classes, but they shouldn't GET that benefit, they shouldn't be the abundant type or path in OJP, and they shouldn't be sparked to choose that path either.

If they do, no problem, though in moderation.

Now I'm starting to see what you mean by high level... well...
Say I buy a bowcaster and a jetpack, I'll take another clip for the bowcaster.
That comes down to what, 11 points? And on the Beta server people start with 20 or 25, right? So as a "cross class" I can immediately buy one if not TWO LEVELS of force lightning!

If I ditch the jetpack I can buy all three levels AND have a bowcaster to finish someone off. Now I know you're gonna think Jedi will be able to defend against it and overcome the low level gunner, but that's a load of crock.

Another strategy I saw being used for anti-jedi killing was a gunner just casting lightning 3 whenever the jedi wanted to slash. And since the Jedi only has 63 DP, draining his DP is going to be very easy. And it can only become easier later on once you get more points.

Originally Posted by Lathain
Obi-Wan didn't suddenly lose some power over the Force for pulling out a gun when the situation called for it,
Where did I say he did? He pulled out a gun for a few seconds, I'm talking about people taking big guns. Big guns that require training and explanation to use in the starwars world, big guns that you can't just pickup and do something with.
The training time required to learn how to use these guns is a part of the skill buying process, but it should also further emulate the "time spent" by not allowing the person that did spend time learning how to use a gun, spend time as easy learning how to use Force or a lightsaber. It's logical.

Originally Posted by Lathain
and he's the guy who gives the 'lightsaber only' mantra to Luke.
No, he just says that he doesn't like the use of "crude" weapons such as blasters and prefers the more elegant lightsaber. You could interpret what he said in many different ways. As I've said before, Jedi using typical small arms like an e-11 or a pistol is fine by me, they're not at all that powerful, but why?
They're JEDI, unless in some predicament they lose their goddamn LIGHTSABER somewhere and can't get it back, I don't see the need for that.
But if they still want to do it, fine by me, light arms is okay. But if they want to start using rocket launchers and explosives and all that jazz, they're gonna have to sacrifice something.

Originally Posted by Lathain
As for Kyle Katarn, that's an 'intentional' extinguishing of his powers for fear of the Dark Side, the suppression was so great he had to actually go to the Valley of the Jedi and step into its core to regain them (where's the multiple power loss? I only see that he lost his powers after MOTS due to the suppression, and got them back in JO.)
I'll get back to you on that, dates long back.

Originally Posted by Lathain
He didn't instantly lose gun skills then and there though, now did he? With all that in mind, your comment on Katarn does not work as he was a special case in all facets.
What in JO? Ofcourse not, he was a trained mercenary, the whole POINT of him getting his powers back was that he DIDN'T SPEND the time necessary (as even Luke said in the cutscenes) to train them , but instead took the easy way out and just got them handed to him. And since he was a Jedi before this, he only needed a crash course in the basic powers to be able to use them again like he was supposed too.

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