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Old 12-12-2006, 07:38 AM   #128
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YertyL's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 390
Originally Posted by Rust_Lord
Rebel Fighters and Balance
From my understanding of everyone’s unhappiness about the quality of rebel fighters, this has more of an impact in GC than skirmish where you have to buy the sdqns, whereas the Imps don’t. Would I be correct? (In skirmish the sqdns are roughly the same price so its not as critical.) YertyL made a good point about having the flexibilty to bring on more fighters than an Imperial force however I can understand a Rebel players point of view that this could be expensive and even if the Rebel force won, the victory could actually be a defeat economically. I guess it depends on how much you have in the bank but I generally dont like a 'meat grinder' strategy.
Well, for the cost of 5 ISDs (29.000 credits in GC) you can buy quite a lot of fighters before it gets economically disadvantegeous. (1 ISD costs more than 10 fighter squads and 10 bomber squads together) - you will experience losses though, but I think it is often overlooked that fighters are relatively good for how cheap they are.

One thing that annoys me with fighters is that if you lose half the sqdn then they are lost. Its just not cost effective. Why not have it so that once you buy a sdqn, even if it gets wiped out it will still replenish its losses after the battle provided you win or withdraw some of the force. At present I think rebel fighter sdqns are far too disposable.
My thoughts as well . It's funny that you can get far higher "military efficiencies" with the Empire than with the Rebs (at least I can) although the Empire is supposed to rely more on sacrificing cheap units.

The first GC in FoC I played (on medium) with them I took over the galaxy quicker than I did when playing with the Empire. I fought only 1 ZC space station, only because I wanted to. I destroyed every other station by using raid forces. This is the best and most important ability of the Rebel and, even if you don’t hold the planet for very long it can cause huge economic damage when a side has to take it back and rebuild. When you play as the Empire you don’t have this option and you have to grind through other factions military the hard way. All you have to do is make sure your raid fleet is led by the right hero.
True, but IMO also a bit sad - raid fleets should IMO be more like a sabotaging ability than a way to conquer planets - ATM however they are still strong enough to take out most planets (especially with the Gargantuan - how imba can you get? )

I take it you have all seen the price increases for the ZC upgrades in skirmish? Some of them are HUGE. It will be a real investment and important decision when and whether to upgrade or not. I agree the Aggressor is a pig of a ship; still no Keldabe though. One thing that is annoying is that the ZC is the only faction that gets a capital ship in skirmish at Tech 4. The Imps get one yes but a) it’s a hero, b) its horrendously expensive and c) you cannot mass produce it.

I’ve said it before and ill say it again; all this crap about ZC ships being weak-armored is rubbish…The Aggressor has the same armour as an MC, Keldabe as an ISD, Int IVs have the same armor as an Assault Frig, not a Neb B which would be its equivalent! As for shielding the Aggressor has 200 points less than an MC/ISD but the Keldabe has 200 more and both have about the same refresh rate. Let’s compare their firepower too: Aggressors do same damage as an MC (60) and Keldabes do ISD damage (70). To put this into perspective, the Aggressors mondo weapon does 400 damage, its self destruct does 1500 damage and the plasma cannon on the ZC station does…6000. I’m not going to whinge I’m just putting these figures out there. I still think that with this patch the ZC isn’t going to be too bad BUT my gripe still exists and which happened last night, that when you take out their income in skirmish their must be a script to boost their income because they had no mines (and they took out all my mines after I got theirs) yet were able to bring on 3 frigates, 2 crusaders and 2 Vengeance almost at once when I couldn’t even afford one Interceptor squadron and I only had Vader and Fett…
Good thing you actually looked into the XML for hard proof
I find it funny that in skirmish the ZC gets ships as fast (or faster) than the Rebellion/Empire.
In GC a ZC player at least mostly needs a space station one level higher than e.g. an IMP player for the "same" ship (level 3 for an Int IV, level 4 for a vengeance and lvl 5 for the Keldable)
Btw., IMO this makes it a bit more balanced that the ZC ships are generally stronger than their "counterparts" since they have higher build requirements.

Valter with the Keldabe I think you only need to nerf the shield leech ability. It’s lost a lot of teeth with its ions and mass drivers getting nerfed. As for the Aggressor, if anything is done, the special weapons should be a bit more on the fragile side. Such weapons wouldn’t have the armour they do and this gives it a nice weakness.
Totally agreed, shield leaching is just a god special, everything else could be OK after that patch.

I have to disagree with darthcarth about the Int IVs though…I think they ar superior to both Acclamators and Neb Bs. 1) They are faster 2) They are better armoured 3) Their concussion missile launcher is really nasty and makes Int IV highly effective against starfighters and shielded craft. They fire more missiles than the Acclamator too, plus their special ability makes tem really nasty. Int IVs in a group can really make a mess of capital ships and starbases yet provide their own support.
True, but like I mentioned earlier I find that Int IVs are somewhat harder to get ("rarer")than Accs and Neb Bs (at least when playing as ZC in GC).
I think part of the reason the ZC seems so unbalanced is that the ZC AI miracelously spawns vengeance frigates en masse on tech level 1.
And FunSolo, you do pretty damn good if English is your second language!
Hehe, technically English is my second language as well
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