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Old 12-26-2006, 03:49 PM   #91
I forgot.... what?
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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Look up some of my ideas and tell me what you think

The only problem here is that Ace doesn't want to cut jedi any slack. He's against gunners staying gunners and Jedi staying Jedi as far as I can see.

The misconception that Jedi are still the dominant cla... build* is still pretty much the general consensus here untill someone shows the guys in charge what's really up, therefore I would strongly advise Sushi's ideas be taken into consideration.

I'm very pro when it comes to gunners actually having to worry about more than just ammo stats so they get more responsible in terms of all the powers they get. Lets face it, gunners only use Jetfuel and ammo, but, were it the fact that a gunner would use a force power, he would not be held back or damaged by it because the gunner does not rely on his Force power pool.

Were a gunner to use lightning 3 for example, they could fry their opponent to as much as their FP fatigue threshold would permit them too, and would then switch over to a gun, explosive or the flamethrower. Escaping in this situation is easy since they can use a jetpack and fly wherever they want during the whole round.

DP usage is self-explanatory; none.

Mishap then? Again nada! They don't have to worry about mishap either since they are not Jedi and are not focused as much as Jedi.

Why then , knowing this, do we not act like any sane developing team and use these facts against the gunners somehow? Why do we not clip the wings of gunners in terms of build freedom when they already have so much freedom?

Is full customization the reason, eh? I have no problem with that, as long as the pure classes - for the ones among us that don't know what that is: it means that the build stays true to one side and chooses only guns and gadgets or only Force powers and saber skills - actually get some kind of compensation for not using the opposite's side weaponry.

If this isn't the reason, then why don't we take a page out of Ace's book and follow the "movierealism" path... anyone else notice how this is immediately flushed down the toilet? I don't think I even have to start about movierealism, it is non-existant.

Okay. So afterwards, "movierealism" wasn't the main goal anymore, it changed to "realism". Yeah, just realism. What is realism? Are we supposed to imagine Jedi and Sith being real, and the StarWars universe being alive but with less science fiction?

Okay, lets assume so:

Jedi and Sith have been trained since childhood to use the Force and manipulate it at will. They've gone through rigorous physical and mental challenges, have spent years mastering a lightsaber style, and leaving their academy they are well able to destroy or create, manipulate in general the matter and minds around them.
They also wield a weapon that can cut through almost any type of matter with ease, and wield it with such grace and power that no enemy could stand and oppose them.

To top it off, they can actually look shallowly into the future.


Mercenaries for hire, from the streets and other places that have gotten crash courses into handling blasters and the likes.

..I don't have to explain further why "realism" isn't really a main goal either anymore.

So what remains?

You tell me. I and numerous others have been posting about this since before Vruki lost his internets and noone even bothered to think about it before all these changes were implemented.
Gunners and hybrids are overpowered, and no simple damage nerf will widen the gap that was present between Jedi and Gunners.


However, I will explain how I think we should go about fixing this.

Firstly, the Jedi versus Jedi system - A.K.A the saber system - is excellent. With a few adjustments I think it will even top future Wii saber systems and then some.

Although such systems do not exist for anti gunner combat. There are no clear guidelines on how much damage something does, how you are supposed to attack, how powers react towards gunners or how you are supposed to use your saber against a gunner correctly.

(I'll begin from distant attacks and slowly work my way closer)

Firstly, the deflecting system needs a tune-up. We need to get DP and mishap more deeply and intuitively involved into deflecting blaster bolts back gunners.
I suggest this:

Saber Defense 0:
You are unable to deflect blaster bolts and dodge them instead.

Saber defense 1:
Ability to deflect shots in undetermined directions for as long as you have DP and as long as your mishap bar isn't full.
Once you run out of DP you dodge shots as normal and most likely die.
If your mishap bar goes fills up completely you also lose the ability to deflect and start making mistakes.

Your mishap will fill up by one line every 5 shots you deflect with your lightsaber.

Every third shot will be deflected untill you don't find some way to rest and recover your mishap.

Reflecting shots at the crosshair is only possible without mishap, so 5 shots and that's it.

(note that recovering mishap from blaster shots can be done while running, walking, standing still and meditating. Mishap will also go down faster in that order. Running should make your mishap go down by one every 4 seconds. Walking every 3, standing still every 2 and meditating every second, regardless of Saber Defense level.)

Saber defense 2:
DP as normal.

Mishap fills up by 1 with every 7 shots.
When your mishap bar fills up you take extra damage to dp damage by blaster bolts but do not lose the ability to deflect.

As long as your mishap is under half, you can reflect shots back at the crosshair.

Saber defense 3:
DP as normal.
Mishap goes up by one every 8 shots you take.

You can reflect shots back at the crosshair as long as you have under half mishap.

Reaching full mishap means more damage from shots.

Reflecting can only done while walking or standing still.


That's for deflecting. On to short ranges:

When you attack someone and they shoot you, your attack is canceled out.
But in the next half second you can attack again, this needs to change.

If you slash and get shot, you have to return to ready stance before you can slash again. That is my feedback when it comes to this.

This will enable gunners to 'juggle' jedi infront of them, force their saber away from their bodies by forcing the jedi to deflect before they can slash again.


Manual deflect is a favourite move of mine, but it's underused.
Why? Because it doesn't work. Hate to break it to you.

Ace and I have been brainstorming about what we could do with it to make it usable and working again. Personally I would suggest this:

The Jedi is required to have saber defense 3.
The Jedi must stand still.

Now, to manual deflect you will be required to power attack (attack fake) and hit the incoming bolt with it. This will take one mishap bar but it will send the bolt flying back to a random enemy (if only one enemy is present, it will go towards him).

The manual deflect will fail if the Jedi moves or jumps.

If anyone has any other ideas on how this should work, post them freely.


I solemnly believe that there is no or little balance present for gunner vs Jedi combat currently, but I also believe that if we combine our thoughts and work out some ideas that we can solve the imbalance easily.

My ideas are an example of how it should look, and naturally because they are my ideas I would love to see them ingame, but they're just ideas and suggestions for now, so please post your opinions, suggestions, comments and most of all, your own ideas.

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