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Old 02-05-2007, 01:02 PM   #23
Spider AL
A well-spoken villain...
 
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Help, help, I'm stapled to my workstation.
Posts: 2,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf
The fact is, depending on how one defines anything, you'll find it whereever you want. Perfect example, chain gangs are somehow considered a form of slavery by you, but "light" forced labor is merely acceptable. Trying to have your cake and eat it too?
Are you seriously trying to suggest that your parents telling you to go and do the washing up is "forced labour"? If they threatened you with a beating if you didn't comply, it might well be forced labour, but that is hardly standard nor excusable parental practice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf
The type of work isn't what constitutes "slavery", but rather the situation one finds oneself in (forced labor, with no real ability to opt out). One more onerous to be sure, but both forms of forced servitude.
You missed the point, the point was that mild menial work in prisons can be regarded as part-payment of the prisoner's debt to society, and the low wages can likewise be regarded as forfeiture of monies as part-payment of the prisoner's debt to society.

But physically debilitating or dangerous work is in clear violation of penal policy (and moral scruples) regarding welfare of prisoners, so it can not be so charitably regarded. It cannot be regarded as payment of a debt to society, any more than regular beatings of prisoners could be so regarded. Thus it falls under the definition of slavery, because it is unfree labour that cannot be excused as being part of a legitimate prison sentence. End of story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf
Unemployment is one type of assistance. Welfare, at least over here, is different. Either way, it's government assistance with no real return to society. Many have stated that expecting people to have to perform any kind of service in exchange for this support to be tantamount to slavery.
First of all you initially referred to "the dole" which is contemporary slang for "unemployment benefit" and always has been since WWI, when it was first coined in the UK. So my response was apt, and you seem confused.

As for your assertion that it's assistance with "no real return to society", what nonsense. The "return to society" is the effort to get back into gainful employment, thus powering the society with one's labour and taxes. As you assist society through your work, so society assists you when you are unable to work, until you are once again working. Common sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf
Once again, though, as I didn't actually challenge your contention about "legitimate" slavery, you actually refuted nothing and reduced nothing to irrelevancy. However, as the only form of actively state sanctioned "slavery" you contend is prison related, it does relate to my intial point about how you define slavery explains where you will see it.
Yeah, I refuted your points, and have done so again. If you want to wallow in denial, it's your problem.

As for your implication that calling state-sanctioned child-slavery in Israeli prisons by its true name (slavery) is in some way manipulating the definition of slavery... rubbish. It's not my definition or your definition, it's the basic definition.


[FW] Spider AL
--
Hewwo, meesa Jar-Jar Binks. Yeah. Excusing me, but me needs to go bust meesa head in with dissa claw-hammer, because yousa have stripped away meesa will to living.
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