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Old 10-09-2007, 12:24 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Hipmonlee
Anyway, I'm not claiming that the map I posted is 100% correct. However, it gives a very clear idea of how separated the Unknown Regions are from the Old Sith space. The other map from K2 (The one which shows Malachor V) further shows that indeed, Malachor belongs in the UR. To top on to that, we have the NEC (post-K2) which retconned Malachor being not far from Lehon, which is indeed in the UR (per K1 and the other maps).
Except those maps in the games are more often than not completely inconsistent with the (nice-looking) map that you base your conclusion on. Take a look at where the planets are on the KotOR1 maps, then look at the corresponding planets on the map you linked to. Indeed, NONE of them are in the same place (except Malachor, which does not appear on your map), and actually only Dantooine and Tatooine are anywhere close to where they are on the map you link to. The maps have Kashyyyk on opposite sides of the galaxy, for example. The same is true for Telos. And Korriban is far to the right and a little above the center on your map, while it is far below the center on the map in KotOR1. Lehon/Rakata Prime/Unknown World is, in fact, much closer to the galactic core than any other planet in KotOR1 (except possibly Manaan), and that is below the center to the left, not far above the center, where your map places the unknown regions.

That you then take the position of Malachor in TSL and put it straight onto your galactic map without considering the rest of the planets in the game means you're either comparing apples and oranges or that you're looking only at what supports your own theory, while ignoring anything else in the same source that speaks against it.

You cannot claim consistency, when the maps you refer to are in utter conflict about essentially all the other worlds. Indeed, there is probably no conflict for Malachor simply because only TSL actually puts it on a map.

I'm not going to bother loading up all the maps to prove this, since it's beyond easy for all of us to load up the game and check for ourselves that this is so. So I'm hoping that will not be necessary.

Originally Posted by Hipmonlee
I guess that leaves us in a plothole, because Kreia's quote doesn't correlate with canon information about Malachor V. If I could play the "typo card", then I'd do it to correct that Kreia's quote. "Inelegant", I know, but some fixing has to be done in some way or another, imo.
What other canon information? What Kreia says in TSL is THE definite canon source on Malachor. She says what she says because the devs wrote and LA approved it. Naturally, it is subject to later retconning, but to suggest that Kreia's quote is somehow not canon is akin to saying that Plagueis being Sidious master in Episode III does not correllate to canon information. Well, Ep.3 IS the canon information about Plagueis (until LA decides to retcon it...).

Kreia is wrong because it says otherwise where?

When I mentioned an assumed typo, it was because there was conflicting information about the same detail in the same source (TSL), where the circumstantial evidence seemed to point to one. I therefore dismissed the other. I have yet to see any information that contradicts Kreia on this (apart from fanboy speculation).

Originally Posted by Hipmonlee
The NEC is quite clear, and mentions that after Empress Teta's victory, the Republic decided not to underestimate the Sith threat, thus, they destroy most life in the planet in fear. I consider it pretty much fact, since I haven't seen a source that contradicts it.
Maybe so. I haven't seen the NEC, but if that's all it says, then that still doesn't give us a timeline for when this took place. "After Empress Teta's victory" could be an awfully long time.

And naturally, it still says nothing about the other Sith worlds. Indeed, if the Republic cleansed them all, then they should have found and cleansed Malachor as well, since it - like Korriban - lies on the fringes of the empire, according to Kreia.

Originally Posted by Hipmonlee
Good point, though, Yavin IV is indeed in the Old Sith space, so that's more exploring on the Republic side, and less "unknown" for that part of the galaxy.
Your own map doesn't exactly suggest so, and the KotOR1 map puts Yavin on the completely other side of the galaxy from where you place the Sith Empire.

Originally Posted by Hipmonlee
I think it's more of the second, myself. There is indeed quite a lot of controversy among planet locations, hence why an official Atlas is coming next year...I guess that'd put this dispute to an end.

Still, there's no reason to dismiss the more general aspects. While Hoth may indeed be misplaced, the Unknown Regions certainly aren't, which was the basis of my argument.
Well, the only other planet - Lehon/Rakata Prime in KotOR1 - does not support your thesis. In fact, the maps are utterly in conflict about all the planets that appear on both. That Malachor is the only one (that was not cut from either game) that does not appear on both maps might be the reason why you missed that detail.

Originally Posted by Hipmonlee
Yeah, I could understand them dropping the idea after seeing K3 being held for so long. But as far as I remember, it didn't sound like they were dropping it.
That still presumes that they intended such an uber-race, when they wrote the game. Since they refer to the Sith Empire in the plot, I would not think so.

"It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built" - Kreia

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