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Old 10-10-2007, 12:10 PM   #104
Jediphile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipmonlee
I was basing my assumption on the location of the Unknown Regions. Clearly their position was consistent all the way long.
Only on maps that are highly questionable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipmonlee
The Sith empire is not in the Unknown Regions:

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1713/galaxy2ak3.jpg

This is the map from the NEC. In an earlier post I quoted:

"Coming from their homeworld at the Unknown Regions, the Rakata were the first species to produce a stable hyperdrive (...) By transporting these slave species to new worlds, the Rakata were believed to have inadvertently seeded swaths of the galaxy with sentient life in the known galaxy and the Unknown Regions"

"Just like the taboo-Mandalorian planet, Malachor V, which belongs to the Malachor system, nearby other worlds that would be instrumental to the destiny of the galaxy, like the homeworld of the Rakata, and the Chiss' ascendancy (...)".

The "Unknown Regions" it's referring to is clearly the one shown in the map, which is post K2 and C-Canon. Nowhere it is mentioned that the Unknown Regions were bigger. Now, we know that Korriban and other Sith planets are indeed in the other side of the galaxy. I'll refer to an earlier, official map:

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/8...iles139xb6.jpg

That shows Korriban, Thule and Ziost far from the canonical location of the UR, and is C-Canon as well.
Kreia: "You must go where Revan did, into the Unknown Regions, where the Sith, the true Sith, wait in the dark for the great war that comes. And he came because Malachor, like Korriban, lies on the fringes of the ancient Sith Empire, where the true Sith wait for us, in the dark."

From the defining source on Malachor V, which I would presume to speak to the author's intentions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipmonlee
We do, actually. It was a few hundreds of planets, which clearly shows that it can't extend to the Unknown Regions. If it was more extended, the Republic would have noticed their presence.
In that case I'm going to argue that the unknown regions area that you define must have been noticed by the Republic long before, since it's a LOT closer to the core of the Republic than the Sith worlds on this map - http://www.xs4all.nl/~wrvh/galaxymap/galaxymap_p1.jpg

Since Malachor and other worlds were clearly not discovered by Republic, they therefore cannot be in this unknown region that you refer to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipmonlee
Because the location has been retconned.
Or merely contradicted each other due to inconsistency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipmonlee
Perhaps, but that's purely conjeture.
Actually, it's well established in TSL by the quotes I posted, which I also think speaks to the author's intentions, seeing as how they are in the game.

What is purely conjecture here, however, is the idea of an entirely new order of ancient Sith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipmonlee
I don't see how. The Sith fell into civil war and couldn't afford looking for him, whereas the Republic decided to bombard nearby Sith worlds. It's perfectly consistent, even more when you take into account the fact that he was aiming to rebuild the empire and it would have been impossible for him to do so if he fled that far.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Naga_Sadow

"Naga Sadow, with his lone ship, retreated to the remote moon of Yavin 4, fourth moon of Yavin Prime. It was here that he conducted Sith alchemic experiments on his Massassi warriors, causing them to mutate from red-skinned Humanoids into fearsome, savage, hunchbacked predators. Despite these abuses, his Massassi slaves treated him like a god, building huge temples to honor their Sith Lord. Naga Sadow had hopes of reconstructing a new base to form a new Sith Empire, but this was never realized."

"Sadow encased himself in a suspended animation chamber, beneath the focusing chamber of a primary temple, where he remained in a coma-like trance for centuries, waiting for someone to call upon his power and continue the history of the Sith. He remained in suspended animation until 4,400 BBY, when a dark-hearted Jedi named Freedon Nadd arrived on Yavin 4, awaking the Dark Lord. Sadow taught him in the ways of the Sith, and Nadd became a force to be reckoned with. After his training, for a reason unknown at this point, Naga Sadow was killed by Freedon Nadd, which likely brought the Sith race to true extinction."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipmonlee
Because they thought they would eliminate him by cleansing all nearby planets. This goes back to the fact that the Old Sith space was quite explored, and not "unknown", like the true Unknown Regions, which they know absolutely nothing about.
1. This argument appears to me to be in utter conflict with your point that the Sith Empire would have been discovered by the Republic, if it had more than a few hundred planets. The unknown regions - according to your source - is much, MUCH closer to the Republic than the Sith Empire appears to be, so by that logic another Sith empire would have been discovered that much sooner and therefore cleansed by the Republic.

2. If they were looking for Naga Sadow on all nearby planets, then - according to your source - Yavin IV would have been one of the first where they should have looked for him, since its very close to the Sith Empire on the map - http://www.xs4all.nl/~wrvh/galaxymap/galaxymap_p1.jpg - and also straight on the path between the Republic and the Sith Empire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipmonlee
Yeah, my mistake. Point given.
However, the NEC graphycally shows the position of the Unknown Regions, and then explicitely mentions Lehon being included into them, is C-Canon and was published after K2. I'm not sure how we can escape that.
1. The maps are highly questionable as sources, since they conflict.

2. The map is still off by 4000 years with regards to the KotOR era.

3. A different Sith Empire than that of Ragnos, Sadow and Kressh has yet to be established.

4. TSL (Kreia) says that Malachor V and Korriban are on the fringes of the Sith Empire, where the true Sith wait. I still don't see how your quote from the NEC contradicts this in any way, unless you see the Unknown Region as a specific area of space that is carved in stone and unalterable (even after it becomes known...), whereas I see it the way adamqd does...

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamqd
On a side note: The Term Unknown Regions is a point of View, often coined by members of the Galactic Republic, there are obviously thousands of Races who at some point in history have been sentient and possess advanced technology, but had yet to contact the Republic.
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