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Old 10-22-2007, 09:39 AM   #61
Ray Jones
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Originally Posted by Corinthian
It doesn't say that, because the Bible doesn't deal with hypothetical situations.
It doesn't say that because people try to avoid thinking about that, and a proper answer is most probably going to render god immoral, a sinner or the whole thing itself useless.

It deals with what actually happens.
Nope. It tells metaphoric stories, which are more of hypothetical nature rather than contemporary. Especially since the book is 2000 years old.

As for your pointless questions that are essentially just there to irritate...
Err, please. Questions cannot irritate. However, obviously you just don't know a valid answer to my questions, and to cover that you accuse me of being irritating. You are irritated, indeed. Actually this is not due to my questions, but because you cannot answer them, and even more, you recognise that my questions arise a very good point.

hypothetically, if you were taken to a shack, flung in and locked in with no means of getting out, would you be free? Of course not.
How is that relevant to god removing sin?

By denying us the option of defying God, we have no free will. God doesn't want our devotion to him by having it hardwired into our heads. He wants it to be our choice.
AGAIN: remove sin and nothing but sin. Nothing else. Is that so hard to comprehend?

God has Free Will and is not a sinner. Correct.
OK. Then we have prove that 'no sin' and 'free will' is an easy to solve task.

However, while Jesus was on Earth, there was the potential for him to sin. He had that choice. Satan tempted him with it quite often.
Oh, so Satan propagates sin? Here's my suggestion: remove Satan. One problem regarding sin solved.

I don't suppose you've ever heard of Jesus' fasting for forty days in the desert.
And you base that assumption on what fact? Also, I cannot see the relevance to 'make sin go away' either.

We have pain and suffering because we sinned and this is a fallen world.
'fallen world' - what does that mean anyway? This is a vague phrase, and makes no specific point at all. And, also, that whole sentence is not true. We have pain and suffering because god created it. If god created everything, he also created cause for pain and suffering, and thus pain and suffering. He is also not taking it away, thus knowingly putting us through pain and suffering, thus he is acting immoral. Ain't that a sin?

We have sin because God gave us that option.
I cannot see that option in the phrase "every human is a sinner". Focus on the word "is".

Ignoring Original Sin, which is an extremely complicated subject and most theologians don't entirely understand it
But yet you fight these theories as if there was no tomorrow. You orientate your life after something you don't understand, without even asking questions for further understanding.

every human, except Jesus, has sinned
Oh, and so has a unborn or newborn baby? Again, where is the "option" to sin or not in that statement.

thus damning us
I sense immorality.

According to the Laws God laid down, if you sin, you must pay the penalty
Again, since everybody sins, everybody must pay the penalty. Why that whole "god gave us the option to sin" gibberish then. God made us sinners, that would be correct.

Why would he erase his Laws from existence? That removes the whole point of the Law! It would be like if we made murder legal as soon as someone was on trial for it. It defeats the entire purpose of the law.
Nobody said make sin legal.

Of course, you'll pull some kind of complaint that he should just make it all okay for us despite the fact that we defy and sin against him every day, and forgive us whether we ask for forgiveness or not.
Without sin, no forgiveness of sin is needed. Simple logic.

But you don't want forgiveness, do you? You'd prefer it just all get taken away and you never had to deal with it.
Hey, why bother me with something that bothers god? If he dislikes sin so much, he should do something against it, not I. Also, why should I deal with the 'sins' of everybody else? It still makes no sense to me.

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