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Old 11-02-2007, 05:03 AM   #99
True_Avery
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Status: Banned
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Sure.... if you completely forget that LA cut two months from that schedule...

Check your facts - LA cut two months from that schedule. Given that the production time was a year, I would humbly assume that just might be of relevance.
I had forgotten about that, and you have indeed proven pretty much everything I said as false thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
[insert sigh here] Sure... Of course Bioware can do K3. Who says they can't? The problem is that we know they won't, because they have repeatedly said that they will not and are not working on K3. What parallel dimension do you live in, where they have not said so?
I was speaking in term if Bioware was in fact making the game. I completely agree and personally think that a KOTOR game is very unlikely, but still possible. As I have asked, please present me proof that it is being made and anything before hand is pointless debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Sure they can. Statistics lie every day.

But you're right, of course - none of KotOR's success has ANYTHING to do with a rich background established by the comic books that the game was named after... perish the thought!
And I see great comic books made into terrible movies everyday. Your point?

It takes a good director, a good team to turn something that is great into something equally great. It takes an ignorant or average team to turn a great story pretty sour. As you have said, the team was cut time and had its beginning planning process destroyed by LA due to the original script having nothing to do with KOTOR. And I shall change my opinion and place more blame on LA for TSL over Obsidian, but if I was Obsidian I wouldn't of taken the job in the first place after being treated like that. If a marriage starts with zero information followed by barking orders, I would get divorced immediately... and if I was in Obsidian's shoes, I would have quit or threatened to quit for being treated like trash. I would have held out for a better shot, or let LA pick on another company. Who knows maybe LA would have been better with another company, but probably not. Better release something complete and smooth with a good company than release something that is uneven and full of holes for a company that treats you like dirt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Totally subjective. KotOR is better IMPLEMENTED (because Bioware, unlike Obsidian, were actually allowed to finish the game), but TSL had the better plot IMHO.
I agree on the implementation, but we differ on story opinions and I am glad of it. Makes you better for kicking down my poorly written arguement, and I mean that in no way to be offensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Now, you have a right to your opinion, but to state that TSL is poorly written as a matter of fact is just untrue, because it comes down to personal taste.
Agreed, and I was wrong to state it as fact. What I feel I was trying to state that the story was uneven, incomplete, and full of plot holes. But, as you have said, most of that blame can be placed on LA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
1. TSL isn't left open for fan fiction?!?
Everything is left over for fanfiction or porn
Again, I overstepped my thoughts. But, I believe there is a line between fiction to take off a polished game and fiction to fill in massive gaps in a plot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
2. TSL, unlike KotOR, was intentionally written for the purpose of a subsequent sequel. It's open-ended by design, not by omission or neglect. So your position is founded on a completely flawed assumption.
Fair enough. I would argue, but you facts on LA and the time constraints make anything I would say fall in upon itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
LA will realise the world does not revolve around them? Sure... If they can see the sky for all the flying pigs...
Agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Seriously, there is no way I can imagine that this agreement between LA and Bioware came about AFTER Bioware was bought by EA. I can ONLY imagine it if the deal was struck (and signed) before EA bought Bioware and then kept secret. Now, you're not going to hear either side admit to this - at least for a long time - because it will benefit neither. But no matter how you look at it, this deal will now mean that LA's deal with Bioware will make money for EA, which means it cuts into LA's profits. And there is no way LA is okay with that IMHO, because no matter how well the game(s) do(es), LA will always be thinking, "gee, we could have made even more money," because that's what business is like. It's not personal, it's just business.
Those thoughts crossed my mind more than once, and I would not be suprised in the least if you were proven right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
We finally agree on something...
The point of the first half of my post was mainly just to rant, so I wasn't expecting a single person to agree with me. In fact, I had the feeling I was very off in a few areas but instead of looking it up I left it for someone like you to rip it apart and tell me what about the arguement was wrong.

In all honesty, I should have ranted, deleted the first half of my post, and just kept the second half but, oh well. You did a fine job showing me my errors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
You know, I tend to agree with that... Because the only alternative for LA is to acknowledge that they butchered TSL themselves, and so that it could happen with any game where they pushed the deadline.
I couldn't agree more now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Sophistry. If there was proof, discussion and speculation would be moot and so not take place.
Very true, it does ruin the point doesn't it. Just seems silly to flip out and make 4 threads for every rumor that pops up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Au contraire. If it now turns out not to be KotOR in any way, then I'll actually be overjoyed. I'm "screaming in agony" exactly because I'm not getting my hopes up but preparing for the worst. To quote Garak, "I alway hope for the best. Experience - unfortunately - has taught me to expect the worst."
True, and aftering looking through this I can understand why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
I think so, and I have long since explained why and how. But it does depend on your perspective, of course. If you think that Revan and/or exile are gods than will defeat any enemy and overcome any obstacle ever, then you'll naturally be disappointed in any event, because that is never true of ANY character in ANY plot. If TSL made any mistake, then it was in how it failed to deflate the exaggerated view some people have of Revan and even adding to it IMHO.
Indeed, many of the dialog on Revan made him/her out to be some Anakin copy. Pretty much stuck a knife in Revan's fanbase and let more of the crazed fans ooz in. And yes, any story that simply has you as a God isn't all that deep, thats why Kotor is unique from Star Wars: The good guy does not always win in them if you choose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Being on a "KotOR high" seems unlikely given how much time has passed since the last installment. People are not on a high - they're just annoyed that they've been waiting for years and there STILL is no KotOR3 on the horizon or even news of it. If LA had said that KotOR games were dead, then it would be easier, because then we could at least mourn their demise and reminisce about the games and how great they were. As it is we're all in Limbo and stuck there...
Yes, that would indeed be a better was of putting it. The majority of the blame for the mass of useless posts can be placed onto the more crazed part of the community, but as you said... discussion is discussion.

Quote:
Unfortunately, it's pretty much canon that Exile is female, so if anyone ever writes a tie-in novel, it's going to contain that horrendous nightmare of a love interest. Fortunately, we can probably dodge it in most other mediums.
Besides, we cannot seem to have a KOTOR thread without at least one debate with two or more people debating on what gender exile/revan was. Those, above all else, are erking me the most. The gender's were placed as "canon" because they needed a gender to write in the Star Wars books and wiki articles. Get over it, accept it, and move on with your Star Wars lives.
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