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Old 11-06-2007, 05:09 PM   #198
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Montréal, Québec, Canada
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Originally Posted by Jediphile
If KotOR does not need a change, then who do we need a KotOR MMO?

Besides, I doubt Blizzard saw it as a desperate measure when they decided to do WoW.
Why not now? The franchise is still strong and in no way will anyone call it a desperate measure.

Originally Posted by Jediphile
To use your own words, "sloppy comparison". Not only does the observation have no bearing on the discussion, but it's also a bad example due to the racist overtones. Besides, as I've already pointed out, I don't claim to be representative of everyone who ever played KotOR. Indeed, I said just that in what you reply to here, so it seems - at best - very odd simply ignore it and then proceed as if I'd claimed that all Kotorians are exactly the same and/or that I'm a representive of them. I've said neither. In fact, I just said that the latter is definitely not the case. + the "disclaimer", cut due to size
Well, sure it has a racist overtone, but at the time I could find nothing better. However, it doesn't make it less of a good example. Why? I'll tell you why.

You based your entire argumentation on one thing: alienation of fanbase. You cited Enterprise as an example. Yet, there has been no proof of this. Outside of the first 2 pages of this thread, reaction has been more temperate and moderate. It is expected. Had this been an official announcement of K3 being made by Bioware, you'd have people up in arms denouncing how it's a bad news and that LA should have given the job to Obsidian. This is also why I thought you didn't read the entire thread properly; it seemed like your arguments ignore the more moderate points of view that came after the initial knee-jerk reaction.
Your argumentation of alienation is then based on what? Your opinion, which you have stated quite clearly, as well as those of a few other people who think like you. A KotOR MMORPG would alienate you and some others. Not for a second can you even remotely speak of alienating the fanbase, at this point in time.

You can claim whatever you want to claim, your argumentation does not lie: it is fully based on your personal opinion and not on a larger view of the KotOR community.

Originally Posted by Jediphile
Polls are notoriously shady, since they depend entirely on what precisely was asked, in what context, and - highly relevant in this case - who was asked. I'd add when to that list, except it's probably less relevant in the case of a game. Heck, you could even say that I have an "interest" in it, since I'm discussion. Wouldn't be doing that if I were not interested, would I? Because obviously "interest" does not equal being positive towards something.
The question was approximately like this:

Which of these rumors would you want to be true?

-3 options that don't matter
-Bioware MMO = KotOR 33%
-GTA IV sporting a 16 player MP mode 35%

In no way is this truly significant, but it means that there's a market and that some people are interested in it. True, the readers of aren't the entire world, but again, this poll still has some meaning. I think you're intelligent enough to know that I used the word "interest" in a positive manner.

Originally Posted by Jediphile
Sure it's possible, but - as has been said before - these are very different games. The original Warcraft games were RTS and WoW an MMO. This means that the overall plot was more significant than the individual characters, yet still with the main focus on strategy and action. KotOR games are SPRPGs, however, which means they are completely plot-driven with focus on the depth of its characters. To be successful games, the characters must spark something among the players, so that we have an emotional investment in them. How many official characters from the Warcraft do we see fanfiction about, for example? You can't simply ignore that difference as if it did not exist. It's essential to KotOR.

Some things about this part...

First, if this was an announcement that Petroglyph was having a partnership with LA for the development of some interactive experience based on the KotOR universe, nobody would give a damn. Yet, the two games would be totally different. I hardly think an RTS could convey this RPG character development and depth.

Second, the first element I highlighted. This is again why people tell you not to use argumentation based on your own personal opinion. I'm sorry if you don't like this, but it's true. You're saying, for a KotOR game to be successful, it would have to be the way you want it to be. If I reformulate it in a way that's not attackable:

"For me to enjoy a KotOR game, it would need to focus on the plot and character development, in order to generate an emotional attachment."

No talk about success or anything, only a pure personal opinion, no strings attached and nobody can contradict you.

Finally, the last segment highlighted, is totally unrepresentative of anything. I will discard it easily.

1. The main Warcraft characters already have a lot of backstory and not a lot of future. Sure, some fans can develop more, but I the current conjuncture in the Warcraft universe, with a greater focus on these lower class adventurers instead of main character demigods, due to World of Warcraft, it is entirely possible that writers simply don't give a rat's ass about them anyone and want to focus on their own stories in the world of Azeroth.
Of course, I base this on a conjunction of events and not on an absolute. I dare assume that people prefer to write new stories and few will focus on existing canon.

It is entirely possible that, had WC given more importance to character development, fanfiction would focus more strongly on maun characters. We'll never know.

2. Why should fanfiction even matter? How many fans of the entire KotOR community (remember, 1.3 million copies sold for the XBox) actually bother to write fanfiction? Too few to be of any factor.

Originally Posted by Jediphile
1-I would somewhat consider myself in the latter group for the simple reason that the numbers seem to me to be the only factor that LA will make its decisions on. I base this conclusion on LA's track record in the pa$t

2-I would so wish that I could agree, but unfortunately I find that I cannot. The fear of over-saturation is great in these cases, especially in LA's case, given that the company has stated it will only focus on a few Star Wars games each year. In other words, LA is already wary of releasing too many Star Wars games at the same, which then compete with each other.

3-If a Star Wars MMORPG is set in the KotOR era, then there is no doubt in my mind that this will be for the explicit purpose of luring existing KotOR fans to the new game, in which case I would consider LA to look at a SP KotOR3 released at the same time as a competitor for the same audience. Therefore I do not believe that a KotOR3 would be released, since it would keep some existing KotOR-players away from the MMORPG, whereas having only the MMORPG will be seen as a desirable in that KotOR-fans may be thought to have no other choice than to buy and play the game, since it's the only KotOR game around.

1. Track record has little bearing. Hey, I admit, I was among those who were panicking about EA buying Bioware and Pandemic. However, it seems that everything is turning out fine for them. Hard to base any reasoning on pure track record. Companies are run by people and people can change...or you change the person at the head of the company. Anyway...

2. Assuming it comes out at the same time. Let's assume the MMORPG, not based on K3, comes out in 2009. What stops K3 SPRPG to be released in 2011 or 2012? Nothing at all. In that case, no oversaturation of anything.

3. I'm seriously having a hard time figuring out what you're trying to say. An MMMORPG would try to lure many existing fans as well as other non-fans. I don't know how this is even a problem. I think WoW also tried to lure many WC fans. That's how things are done.
I'm not sure what you're talking about in regards to competitors and KotOR 3.
As for only the MMORPG and luring people into one pit alone...

I'm going to quote myself and tell you to read the entire thread again:

Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Don't get me wrong though, I believe that doing both is financially viable and would prefer it if it was that way and on this we fully agree.

I think there is a market for both. Segments of those markets overlap, but I think the people who would play the MMO would also play the SP game.
Hey, at this point, they might indeed be thinking ahead. First let the MMO come out, let it garner some success and then decide to conclude the Revan trilogy. If the MMO is about the Mandalorian wars, people who did not play the original SPRPGs might decide to do so just to know what happens next. Then, conclude with K3 at a later date. Of course, this is just speculation on my part.
To clarify, I spoke later on of the strategy employed by Relic and their Dawn of War franchise, regarding to the second expansion, Dark Crusade, being a standalone:

Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
To make it better, I'll mention one of Relic's strategies when making their expansion, Dark Crusade, a standalone game. Well, first off, you needed the original and the 1st x-pac to play with all the races in MP, but another was how they decided to use DC to attract people into playing the original and the first x-pac, Winter Assault. They thought:"Hey, if people like DC, they might want to play Dawn of War and Winter Assault,for the SP campaign." By the way, the SP campaigns in both games are pretty good. -A friend of mine and an aspiring filmmaker.
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