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Old 03-07-2008, 09:47 PM   #13
Achilles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavyarms
Yep, I'm not a fan of Barack Obama. Comes from a few things.
Oh, okay. Now we're at least being honest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavyarms
1. Way too much political symbolism. "Change change change change, some more change. How about some change for a change?"
Are you similarly opposed to rhetoric from the other campaigns or are you discriminating specifically against his? Keep in mind that Hillary has tried to show that she's the true candidate of change throughout this campaign, so if you aren't similarly turned off by "her" message, then it might be time to admit that you're not being objective about this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavyarms
2. Very inexperienced. Hasn't done much really.
Can I safely assume that you've determined this *after* researching his record, reading either of his books, etc? Or should I chalk this up to you "drinking the kool-aid" and move on?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavyarms
3. Won't kill the bad guys. On that I'm sold.
Okay, this smacks of something that might actually be your own opinion. Fair enough that this is an important point for you. FWIW though, keep in mind that both he *and* Hillary have said that they will bring the troops home and *he* was the one that said he would fire missile into Pakistan if he had actionable intelligence against Osama bin Laden and *Hillary* criticized him for it. If that really is the way you feel, then you should be support him and bashing her.
Hillary: 0-2
Obama: 1-2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavyarms
4. Very inconsistent in foreign policy. I will explain.
A. Wants to bomb our allies (Pakistan remark).
B. Wants to strongarm Canada and Mexico unilaterally to basically end NAFTA, but apparently is "a champion of multilateralism."
C. Has stated he'd leave Iraq and then go back if there was trouble. Why wouldn't you make sure things are working right before you did that?
D. Has stated we need peace and diplomacy in numerous ads. Besides Iraq, has be paid much attention to American foreign policy lately? It's not like we're going around the world bashing in people's skulls. Then again, some would just say only Iraqi skulls.
I would invite you to consider that perhaps it's not him being inconsistent so much as you not understanding the point. If you disagree with it that's fine, but to accuse someone of being inconsistent because you don't understand/agree isn't being intellectually honest. Nor is it being objective.

I might be tempted to ask how you feel about Hillary's inconsistencies regarding Florida/Michigan or McCain's inconsistencies on torture, but in case it wasn't obvious, I don't think you're interested in objectively comparing all the candidates using the criteria you've decided are important.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavyarms
5. Doesn't sound very original. Sounds like he's just saying whatever's "good" and "popular."
Assuming that this is true, would similar behavior from the other candidates be similarly disqualifying? For example, Hillary's adopting how "personal" everything is after tracking polls went through the roof when Edwards used the term in a debate?

If you'd like to bring up specific examples, I'd be more than happy to read whatever you have to share.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavyarms
6. Crazy supporters, including the media. Then again, they aren't Ron Paul supporters, but they sure are getting close.
I'd need specific example to understand what you mean. Also, I'd be interested in knowing what criteria you use to determine which campaign supporters are "crazy" and which ones aren't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavyarms
Is that enough for me not to like him?
Sure. But as I've pointed out here, if you aren't applying your criteria consistently, then you might be guilty of being a hypocrite. Hopefully that isn't the case though.

Take care.
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