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Old 06-12-2008, 05:30 PM   #66
Vikinor's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
Let's have a look:
If it is wrong to try to change someone's belief and if the position that there is no god is a belief (a premise I strongly disagree with), then trying to convert someone that believes that there is no god contradicts your first position that trying to convert someone that already has a belief is wrong. I hope that helps to clarify.

So when you attempt to convert non-christians you make sure to include equal time for mormonism, scientology, satan worship, each of the pagan pantheons, ancestor worship, buddhism, the flying spaghetti monster, invisible pink unicorns, fairies, druidism, etc?

Or do you spend most of your time talking about how great your religious tradition is?

So would you say that parents that raise their children within a specific religious tradition are acting inappropriately? Considering that children are especially vulnerable because they have not yet developed the critical thinking skills necessary to adequately question what they are being told, might you say that they are being exploited?


That people need to use reason, not superstitious wishful thinking, to make important decisions.

Note: no one can "disprove" religion as it cannot be tested. Therefore the question, as it is worded, is not useful.

To the spirit of the question: Yes, I absolutely believe that foregoing irrational thinking in order to adopt rational thinking will absolutey result in rational decisions. No more "garbage in, garbage out", as it were.

The defense rests, Your Honor

Indeed they do, but we also need to have a culture that just says no to BS.

The following is one of my favorite quotes from the author Sam Harris:

My pleasure. Thank you for the kudos.

My apologies. One of my many faults is that I tend to assume that if I point out an error in reasoning that the person I am conversing with will be able to see how the reasoning is wrong if I stop to point it out. Hopefully by pointing out the two conflicting statements and expanding on how they contradict one another I have helped to alleiviate any confusion.

Please feel free to ask me to slow down and try again if ever I say something that doesn't make sense. I'll do my best to explain what I'm saying.


I agree with a lot of what you have said. You still don't seem to be understanding what I said about converting though. I do not think that anyone should try and convert Atheists because I view Atheism as a religion. The person has chosen to beleive in no God or gods and they don't need anyone coming up to them and saying "Do you accept Jesus Christ as your savior?"

I was saying that I wouldn't see it as wrong to try and convert someone who has no beleif at all. As in someone who has never really given religion much of a thought. That way they can take what they hear and do as they wish with it. It may lead them into following that religion or into researching others.

I would not know about converting non-christians because I do not do it. I also don't think I would approve of Christians coming up to me and trying to convert me. I respect what they beleive and all I ask is that they respect what I beleive. If I did try to convert and or educate people on a religion then I think I would try to cover Mormonism, Scientology, fairies etc.

The parents raising their children is tricky. I would say that I am partially thankful for being raised Catholic because it lead me to research other beleifs, to keep an open mind and to learn more. I try to keep an open mind on that what I beleive may or may not be wrong.

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