View Single Post
Old 06-16-2008, 03:10 AM   #108
Dapper Chimp
Achilles's Avatar
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 8,227
Current Game: Pillars of Eternity
10 year veteran!  Helpful!  Veteran Modder  Forum Veteran 
Originally Posted by TiE23 View Post
So essentially, the only outcome for this thread will probably be all of the non believers gathering together in one corner, grunting comments like "How idiotic. - He believes in God? - Religious hick. - Clutch that Bible tight, it'll make you feel better!"
Then the believers gathering together in the other corner, sharing thoughts like, "What barbarians! - These angry people are truly lost. - Doesn't he understand? - I'll have the last laugh!"
At the end of the day, that might be the case. But wouldn't it be awesome if someone actually learned something though?

Originally Posted by TiE23 View Post
So yeah, even though there are no spamming of exclamation points and rants written out in CAPS; highlighted in red, too. Even with proper grammar, spelling, and punctuation in all of our statements, this is nothing more than a fight (a bloody brawl is more like it) on the internet. ... and we all know how those end... Just like the Special Olympics: Even if you win, you're still retarded.
How is a discussion on the internet different from one in person? If two people discussing opposing viewpoints are retarded for doing so here, then they are retarded for doing so anywhere. And if our options are groupthink and retardation, I think I'll take my chances with retardation

Originally Posted by TiE23 View Post
But by all means, continue. It's great reading both points, I'm using it as a learning opportunity. Looking at both sides, how they rationalize and shoot down (or attempt to) each other's points, is a great thing to watch. It really reveals the minds of people, exposes them, it's interesting. Two ideologies combating each other is entertaining food for thought.
I would tend to agree.

Originally Posted by TiE23 View Post
But it's still sad seeing anyone fight... tearing us in two... Can't we all just get along?
That's a nice thought and I agree that such a scenario would probably be preferable. However, I don't think that all situations can have compromised outcomes. There are certain things that most people recognize as being absolutes.

What we have here are fundamentally different views of the world. In each case, the reality (or at least the perception of reality) is that the beliefs of others have an impact on everyone. People that believe that acts of nature such as hurricanes, tsunamis, earthquakes, etc are god's punishment for the sinful actions of humans have a vested interest controlling the actions of sinners. They understand that they just can't live and let live, because if their neighbor is sinful and god decides to punish that city, then their lives and the lives of their families are at risk. So these people vote for similarly minded politicians that will act to implement laws that are consistent with their values. But on the other side of the coin, we have people that see their rights and freedoms being restricted based on a belief/value system that they do not share. So the conflict, by it's very nature, is not (and I do not believe can be) live and let live. Both sides have something at stake, and their beliefs are in directly opposed to one another's.

To your point, one would think that intelligent people might be able to sit down and choose to examine the merits of each side of the argument. The problem is that there is no common language. Unfortunately, the religious argument is completely insulated from rational thought, so trying to have an intelligent conversation about the matter fails every time. In the best case scenarios you might here something like, "I know it doesn't make sense, but I choose to believe anyway". In the worst case scenarios, you'll probably hear arguments chocked full of fallacious thinking like, "You cannot prove that [insert name of preferred magic invisible sky daddy here] doesn't exist". So how in the world can we have compromise when rational thinking isn't even possible? How diametrically opposed groups hope to find middle ground when they can't even agree on a basis for examining the merits of a belief?
Achilles is offline   you may: