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Old 08-20-2008, 05:20 AM   #97
Gavroche's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: France
Posts: 220
Originally Posted by Shem
-Why wasn’t that revealed in the game itself? Kreia died, end of story. What would be the point of not revealing it after the game’s events because now it becomes a side issue which really weakens the plot behind it if it were true.

-Why hasn’t it been revealed after 3 ½ years since the game has been released? What are they waiting for? Don’t say KOTOR III because that would be something that would distract the story of the next chapter of the game series. The only way that would work out well is if both Kreia and Brianna were main characters in that game. That wouldn’t be the case.
What was the point of not revealing the HK factory? The point of not having Atton dying against Sion? That's cut content's point, if there's any.

As for why it's not been revealed after 3 years and a half... It's one thing to admit they've cut something because players noticed there is unused content in the game files. It's another to say straightly "And you couldn't guess it 'cause files aren't in, but we also cut this, we decided to ditch that, we did not have enough time for this, and we also scrapped that. Heh. Could never guess we discarded so many things, could you?". That's called saving face.

Avellone's answer to Emperor Devon shows this quite well, IMO. He can't say anything that would show how Obsidian was pressured by LucasArts (how many times did he say all was his fault?), but he still feels "sorry" for not revealing such an important (and thanks to fans' awareness, evident) part of the plot.

Originally Posted by Shem
-The female Exile is now considered the canon way of playing the game. That means the Handmaiden’s role is has been limited to just stealing the Ebon Hawk, telling your party to lay down their weapons, asking Atris about caring for the Exile once, and other optional conversations you could have with her at the Polar Region. Once you leave, her small role in the game is over.
Wizards of the Coast just released their Campaign Guide for Knights of the Old Republic. They say Brianna followed the Exile. Whether they forgot that the Exile is now female, or they were perfectly aware of it (Leland Chee had already said that "maybe" she followed her) is unimportant. Now it's canon.

Originally Posted by Shem
-The hints used to support the theory they’re the same person are easily debunked making it just pure speculation without conclusive facts.
Taken individually, yeah, the hints seem pure coincidences. Added together, it just looks way too big to be coincidences.

Originally Posted by Shem
-We were told that no twists were going to be in TSL. There’s a hint left in one of the dialogue files about that:
Indeed, there's no such "I'm your father" intended for the Exile, meaning Kreia's choice was not motivated by a secret, plot-twisting reason. This developper note only applies to this - the reason why Kreia chose the Exile. It does not refer to whatever relation may or may not exist between Kreia and Brianna.

Originally Posted by Shem
-Kreia makes it clear that she was cast out because of her teachings and beliefs. It was also stated that Kae was exiled for having a child. In TSL, it was clear that Kreia is against love, but wants to prove that her teachings are right. If love was something she thought was right, she would be in the same boat as Jolee Bindo in how she felt about it. If she did believe in love, she wouldn’t have changed her mind about it because that would prove in her mind that one of the Jedi teachings was correct and I don’t think she would dare do that. If there were any issues she agreed with the Jedi on; it would be teachings she already believed in before her exile. She would not change her mind and say the Jedi were right about something after her bitter exile. Kreia was on a mission to prove that she was right and the Jedi were wrong.
Let's put it this way: Kae's teachings do not please the Council, but they still see that she manages to turn her pupils away from the Order ("all my pupils have been failures who went to war", or something like that).
They are itching for a reason to cast her out, but they need a good reason for it (they can't just say that's because of her teachings. The best way to make people read a book is to publicly announce you forbid anyone to read it).
Out of luck, they learn she's bonded to Yusanis. Better, she's got a daughter with him. So they go all "zOMG u has make a baby, u not has rigth lulz! we casts u out!!!!!!11Lim(x->0)=(sin(x)/x)" and cast her out.

We then have two reasons why Kae was exiled. The official, Council-approved one, because she's had a daughter. As we know, that's a stupid reason, as at this era numerous Jedi were allowed to have children (and the wives/husbands who go with it, of course). But, eh, they had to cast her out, and they had to do it quickly, so they did not really bother with finding a good reason.
The informal one, the one they want to keep secret: Her teachings were dangerous to their Order.
Kreia is the only one that is mentionned to have been exiled due to her teachings. Every times we hear about Kae, she's said to have been exiled due to her daughter. IMO that means that the Council's been quite successful at hiding the truth, and that only Kreia knows this truth.
I personally like to interpret Kavar's "I thought you died in war" this way: "Dang, we've been trying to get you out of the scene so hardly, we've been casting you out so you would have nothing else to do than follow Yusanis to war and die there without spreading your sh*t any further, and you still managed to survive?!! Crap!"

But you made another point here though - Kreia's not really a love supporter. Well, nobody's born as a cryptic old manipulative witch. People change during their life. It's even more true when we talk about Kreia, who's always been trying to find "the truth", with Jedi teachings, with Sith teachings, finally with her own philosophy. I would not be surprised if during her travels in the realm of truths, she had had a sojourn in the "Love's the answer to everything" island.

Originally Posted by Shem
-Kreia serving under Revan during the Mandalorian Wars is something I can’t picture her doing. She likes to be the master; the one in charge; that way she is in control. She’s also someone who prefers to resolve conflicts through pacifism and manipulation, even to a point to play tricks on people’s minds, not violence. I believe it was stated that the Jedi thought Kreia “died” during the Mandalorian Wars; never stating she was killed. Not everybody who died during the Mandalorian Wars was a part of it.
True, Kreia as a warrior sounds weird. Not much to say here, except the "people change during their life", though I'm not convinced myself.

Though, Kreia is not all for pacifism. Quite the contrary. She strongly believes the Echani motto that "people find their purpose in conflict". "Apathy is death", "Being helped is being weakened", all this stuff shows she thinks conflict is what makes people strong.

Originally Posted by Shem
-Kreia hates Atris with a passion. Why would she want to leave her child with Atris of all people? She would have manipulated that situation differently and we know she’s good at getting what she wants. If anything, she would have tried to keep, perhaps hide her and use her for her cunning purposes. This reminds that if Kreia wanted to hide Brianna’s existence from the Jedi Council, she would have gotten away with it. Anybody who knows Kreia knows she’s very clever.
After Yusanis got killed by Revan, and she started her sojourn to Malachor V, she may have started not to care about her "family" anymore. That'd be the pivotal moment between the warrior Kae, fighting alongside Yusanis, hoping to win the war to return triumphally and prove the Council wrong, and the manipulative Traya we know.
Anyway, I don't know if Kae ever cared about her daughter. Brianna's the one who is officially responsible for her exile, after all.
I like to think that Kae left Brianna under Atris' guard as a bomb that would explode later. Brianna is the only Handmaiden that ever questionned Atris' orders. These questions and her connection to the Force are Kreia's heritage. And which Handmaiden had the closest relation to Atris? Brianna. She dared asking things to her mistress that the others would not.
So it might be going a bit too far in the conspiracy theory, but I suspect Kae knew that Atris had doubts about the Jedi way and thus let her keep Brianna, who would not follow her orders as blindly as the other Sisters, and would participate to her fall.

Now, I'm not trying to convince anyone either. This thread's been active for so long, everybody is holding their grounds now. If someone at Obsidian just arrived and said "Okay guys, that's been fun to watch you debatting of this during all this time, but, heh, we thought it'd be nice from us to tell you that, er... Kreia's not Kae. And that's it.", well, I'd just accept it (of course, not without an evil cackle and a loud "But you'll see, one day I'll be riiiiight!!", but that's not important :P). The thing is, you were asking questions, so I felt compelled to answer them, with answers I think/hope to be true.

Just debatting for debatting's sake. Keeps mind sharp

"Do you think I seek the death of all living things? There is no victory in such things.
I do not want to win our war like this, little Jedi. When I win, I wish it to be because I was right, my teachings true.
- Kreia, Jedi Master, Sith Lord
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