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Old 09-23-2008, 10:13 PM   #58
Bee Hoon
@Bee Hoon
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,269
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To SD Nihil,

As Astor_Kaine has already pointed out, the onus is on you to find sources to back up your claims.

Originally Posted by SD Nihil
Appeal to them with your plight. They might show sympathy on you and your situation.
An interesting question here is whether you would offer them a job, should you be put in that situation.

Originally Posted by SD Nihil
I do know what he knows when I talk to him. I learned his medical knowledge when he'd talk about it. I learned of his experiences.
A few conversations cannot hope to convey a lifetime of experience and knowledge. Until you have been through the same training and practiced for 40 years, I remain sceptical. And even if you have--I only accept your expertise as a nurse anesthetist, not as a doctor or a community medicine specialist.

It is good that your father cared about his brother, but it is irrelevant to the topic.

Originally Posted by SD Nihil
Those in the medical field take the Hippocratic oath which is to do no harm. We show kindness and sympathy for those good people who worked and bad things happened to them. We don't for those that didn't try.

literacy. Yes we have that too. Though I'm not sure how that has to do with UHC. We allow all citizens to have access to being literate. We are humane. Our hospitals are clean.
I wonder why you keep saying "we" when referring to those in healthcare. Are you working in the healthcare system? If so, as what?

I am fully aware of the Hippocratic oath, and it seems that the point of my post just flew past your head. You, as a person, are not humane. Your stance on poverty is appalling, and you would rather clutch a fistful of dollar bills to your chest than to alleviate a poor person's suffering.

As Jae and many of us have repeatedly pointed out, poverty is not always a person's fault. Has it ever occurred to you that illness can drive a person into poverty? Ironic, but it does happen.


Literacy may be available for all, but there are families who are so desperate that their children have to drop out of school to help support them.

Originally Posted by SD Nihil
Those that do not help themselves I have no sympathy for. That's my right to have that opinion.
So bloggers do not help themselves? I might have taken that as a personal slur, except that it's far too absurd. You might note that many LFers have blogs, all of whom have demonstrated far more compassion and maturity than you have.

Originally Posted by SD Nihil
Which system of health are are you saying they get higher wages on experience? If you mean CHC then yes. For UHC not for doing a better surgery I believe.
I speak personally for the Malaysian health system, (if I remember correctly, housemen are ranked U48, medical officers U52, so on until heads of departments are ranked U64 or similar). As they ascend in rank, their pay also rises--not as much as they might get working in the private hospitals, but most of them have that inner spark to serve the people. The government also provides post-graduate opportunities at local universities.

Originally Posted by SD Nihil
No because it was one instance that only told about a country that matched CHC's mortality level. Not one that was better. Even if there was. The majority of countries that have CHC and those that have UHC II believe CHC have overall better results for the majority.
Well, there is definite proof that you didn't click on them. The links I provided are articles which deal with factors leading to poverty. Nice to know that my courtesy in providing direct links was wasted effort.

Originally Posted by SD Nihil
And how can you expect me to pick out from so many links either. There is too much evidence on it. Look yourself at the many links. I know what I believe and you know what you believe. Your not going to ever change me. I bet neither I am not going to change you.
Once again, as Astor_Kaine has pointed out, you should back up your claims with specific evidence. We are not beholden to do your footwork for you (and here one may be tempted to call you lazy, and a conservative like yourself would condemn you to poverty).

I am open to your viewpoint, if you would only start giving us solid proof that universal healthcare is worse than healthcare controlled by capitalist MCOs, as opposed to whining that we should google it ourselves and that poor people are a black hole for your tax money. Until you do so, all further debate is a waste of time as you clearly refuse to educate yourself on the subject, even when we spoon-feed you with links.

Originally Posted by Yar-El
Do we help those in need over the expense of taking away from another? That is a tough argument to make. Do we take from one person's table to feed another who is capable?
How is taxing those who can afford it to provide care for those who cannot, in any way comparable to stealing the food off their tables? After all, those who have problems putting food on the table probably fall out of the tax bracket or are taxed minimal amounts. Keep in mind that these are the same people whom you and SD Nihil regard as lazy bums who enjoy living in poverty.

How pleasant that you're suddenly so worried about their well-being.

The sun goes down and the sky reddens, pain grows sharp.
light dwindles. Then is evening
when jasmine flowers open, the deluded say.
But evening is the great brightening dawn
when crested cocks crow all through the tall city
and evening is the whole day
for those without their lovers

-Kuruntokai 234, translated by A.K. Ramanujan

[Fic] Shreds of a Dying Belief

Last edited by Jae Onasi; 09-23-2008 at 10:27 PM. Reason: rather baity comment
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