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Old 10-05-2008, 07:38 PM   #14
Det. Bart Lasiter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
Who stormed the beaches
It's called the Allied Invasion of Normandy for a reason.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
who dropped nukes on those Japan islands ending the war
Citing atrocities as victories isn't helping your case.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
who liberated France we did
Once again, the Allied forces. To use your catchphrase against you, who liberated the death camps? The Russians.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
And if you say you didn't need us I think that is an un grateful attitude.
I don't think anyone said that, however you can't give the US all the credit for the Allied victory in World War II. In fact, I'd go so far as to say even with the aid of the US, the Germans may have won in Europe without the help of the Russians. Hell, the majority of Americans didn't even want to get involved until the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, and there's substantial evidence to suggest that the US government let that happen in order to get us involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
I believe that because we've done so much for the world that it does, and the fact we've done a lot for them too. So we may not be expecting anything in return for helping the world. But I think the world does owe us a great deal for our lives, money, and aid we've given to so many.
So you expect the rest of the world to condemn themselves to a sort of "debtors' prison" because the US helped out in the World Wars? If you're going to say that, you have to blame the US for the times it's screwed things up as well. After the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and the massive influx of weapons into the Middle East from the US, Israel, and Egypt, we did next to nothing to rebuild Afghanistan and paved the way for the Taliban to take control. We've supported brutal dictators to protect corporate interests in South America, Africa, Asia, and the Middle East thereby causing massive amounts of war, poverty, and anarchy.
Where's your attitude of taking responsibility and paying off your debts when it comes to those things? Or do you only believe in taking credit for positive things?

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
So humane the UN is for the oil for food scandal. I think they didn't want us to mess up their deal with Iraq because of the deal with Saddam. I think they knew they'd lose out on their deal if we went in. So that's why I think they cared more about their deal with Saddam rather than stand up to a man that committed crimes against humanity.
See above, we've done the exact same thing since the mid-19th century, starting with the Union campaign of "Total War" in the Civil War. If you'd like an example of this sort of thing going on today, how about the US protecting the interests of oil companies like Shell, who had Ken Saro-Wiwa, a Nigerian man who led peaceful protests against Shell, among other oil companies, for the human rights violations they committed against their workers in the Niger Delta area.

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_N..._controversies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Saro-Wiwa

If Wikipedia isn't good enough for you or has what you perceive to be some sort of "liberal bias", click the links cited on those pages or go find your own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
I don't think the UN is very humane if they don't stand up against killers like Saddam. You said aggressive nation. Are you refering to us. We see ourselves as liberators, not as conquerers like Russia, and Saddam was.
Who gives a **** what "we" think (which is a far cry from the truth), it matters how the Iraqis see us since (and this may blow your ****ing mind) we're in THEIR country. As to your assertion that the UN doesn't stand up against "killers like Saddam", what about the genocides that have occurred in numerous African countries (Sudan, Rwanda, and Congo to name a few), Armenia (granted, this was some time ago), and Palestine?

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
Little they did in the face of Hilter. Doesn't change the fact we saved lives, and sacrificed so much. Today may be different in how much of the world hates us, but I believe England and others were grateful for all we did majorly against the axis powers.
No ****. But you're overlooking the fact that every country involved sacrificed as much as or more than what we did.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
So you think we should just not exist, never help, and let you guys fend for yourselves against terrorists, oppressive regimes, and dictators that have commited crimes against humanity.
You're splitting things into just black and white, when the world consists of shades of gray. The US did help the world in World War II. The US does help by giving foreign aid to other countries (although a large amount of it is spent on weapons). However this doesn't mean that our wrongs don't "count", logically, your whole "debt" system should apply to both positive and negative acts.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
Yeah we've saved Iraq. Free elections, education, woman's rights, no Saddam. Yes we saved them. They are doing much of their own defense. We are very close to victory.
We aren't close to "victory" since no one has ever defined what "victory" is, so far it has just been used as a buzzword, something that pro-war politicians throw around to cover up their sins.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
Keep in mind Veitnam is the only war we lost.
And? Iraq is the same type of war we fought in Vietnam and we're using almost the exact same strategy in the Iraq War. Our soldiers are being attacked by people who aren't part of a formal military who dress as civilians. Our response to this is to issue orders to our troops to guess at who their enemy is or is not. We think that brute force is the answer, and ostracize soldiers and intelligence officers with experience in Middle Eastern affairs and culture or the ability to speak Arabic because social conservatives disagree with who they are or how they live their lives.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
Korea, yes because the South Koreans are free and protected from North Korea.
And what of North Korea?

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
We liberated France, much of Europe with our allies. Africa too.
See above for my views on the European front. As to Africa isn't liberated, we've only changed who is doing the oppressing.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
From what I saw on the History channel England had a tough time during the Blitz against the Nazis almost destroying Englands air power.
The Blitz was near the beginning of the war, and ended with an unsuccessful invasion. Again, I'm not saying the US played no part in the victories in World War II, however the US wasn't the superhero-esque picture you seem to be painting.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
The point is by us coming in don't you think we saved more lives of others.
No one said that. See my comment about shades of gray and whatnot.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
I again think it is because the UN didn't want to mess up their deal with Saddam. And I think it's because the UN is spineless, weak, and doesn't listen to the one country (us) that has done more for others than any other nation has in the history of the world.
The US is a great country, and it's the only real superpower left, but you're ignoring its sins instead of advocating atoning for them and making sure they don't happen again. Your attitude is allowing the US to become static and complacent, instead of moving forward and improving on its current state.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
I think we are the best nation on the planet. I'm glad I live here rather than in other countries who hate us, are jelous, whin, are weaker than us, and are un grateful to us.
What other countries have you been to, if you don't mind my asking? In my mind the plains and wildlife of Tanzania are far more beautiful than any place here in the US, the jungles of Central and South America and its wildlife are also incredible. The urban environment of Amsterdam meshed with its history is quite interesting, being able to see the history of a city and how its evolved or been retrofitted is pretty damn cool. Does it make me unpatriotic for picking and choosing the aspects of different countries that I like? No, it only means that I see room for the US to improve, instead of allowing it to stagnate and eventually collapse under its own weight. In short, just because an idea is foreign, you shouldn't write it off as being a lesser idea.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
Those that conquered Europe don't respect weakness. We respect those who stand up against evil and for the freedoms of others.
If we respect those who stand up against evil and for the freedoms of others, perhaps we shouldn't be so selective about who we stand up for and start standing up for them without destroying the infrastructure of their country in the process.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
Now again this above about weak and stuff is not meant as an insult to other countries. It's simply how we feel. I hate none of you here. I simply disagree with other countries who don't agree with us and well the above I have written.
I think others have said this, but enough with this "we" ****, the majority of the country is against the war in Iraq and views US foreign policy in a negative light.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
We believe even with other countries kicking and screaming against our help that we feel we know what's best for them, and what's also best for us too.
Other countries aren't children, they're countries. Unless they meddle with our affairs, we shouldn't meddle with theirs.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
I never said single. I said a major contributer. I don't speak for you. Our country does for you and other I believe. It's like how some that believe in our Christan God that fight against him, or try. No matter what I believe he knows best too. We feel we know what's best.
If we knew it was what's best I'd still say **** that. People need the right to choose what they want, and unless they deny others that right, we should not impose our beliefs onto them.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
Like before with the world wars you assume I belive that we were the sole person who won the world wars. And again you assume here too. I never said everyone did I.
You're still misrepresenting the US' role.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
Some, other than you, are actually grateful when America helps them. Who doesn't want victory and glory. Even our enemies realize that.
Define "victory" and "glory" in this context. Are your definitions the same as those you want the US to crusade for? If not, then what gives you the right to redefine these words for others? Do you have a reason for this beyond "I/the US knows what's best for others".

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
But not all countries allow you to speak badly against their government without fear of punishment from that government. We Americans have a government that allows you to speak poorly against your own government. That is your right in this great land.
And the people you seem to support (pro-war social conservatives) are pro-censorship. I find this more than a little ironic.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
And I could also say if it were not for the French we would've not been here. But that was when they stood by us way back then. I'm just happy the current leader of France has seen the error in our opinion of his country's ways. Maybe that boycotting we did to them paid off.
Yes, I'm sure renaming french fries to freedom fries in a small number of restaurants and cafeterias made a difference.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
And "your welcome". I think I said your welcome so you mean Thank you US for all the good you do for the rest of the world. We should be a heck of a lot nicer to you. Heck we should support you in your quest for freedom everywhere. Without you the world would be a whole lot worse America.
Again, I'm simply asking that you recognize the wrongs the US has committed and the truth of the good things the US has done.



"No, Mama. You can bet your sweet ass and half a titty whoever put that hit on you already got the cops in their back pocket." ~Black Dynamite
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