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Old 10-17-2008, 05:08 PM   #65
Achilles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hhunter6 View Post
Absolutly it should be there. Trends show that as Iraq calms, Afghanistan gets worse. as I said there are many things I don't agree with, and your point about going to Iraq after 2 years in term is taken. IMO son wanted to finish what dad started. But what do I know.
I am by no means an expert either, but I would encourage you to watch old footage of Secretary of State Dick Cheney talking about why Bush 41 opted not to invade Iraq.

Link if you need it.

That taken with reports that I've heard (sorry, no source so take with a grain of salt) that Bush 41 did not support Bush 43's invasion of Iraq leads me to suspect that even the "finishing what dad started" explanation doesn't work. But again, this is all my dime-store analysis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hhunter6 View Post
Politics will do that.
And that's fine, but we can't have it both ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hhunter6 View Post
There are many places we should be, however the first one should be our own country. Maybe we should help ourselfs before we help others. but that could be rather selfish in the eyes of others if you feel that way of course.
And I would tend to agree with you, wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, this side-steps the question though.

Humanitarian crisis in Darfur vs. humanitarian crisis in Iraq. Relatively small oil reserves in Sudan mostly committed to China vs. 3rd largest known oil reserves in Iraq right next to neighboring ally with 1st largest known oil reserves (Saudi Arabia) which also holds strategic significance for neighboring enemy with 2nd largest known oil reserves (Iran).

Nevermind that we're still left wondering how the attacks of 9/11 factor into this.

But forgive me if I sound cynical and skeptical

Quote:
Originally Posted by hhunter6 View Post
In my own ignorance I have to admit defeat on this cause I don't know what that is. BUT if I did, I would not ask you ignore any thought or idea. I was merely going off the first post about driving in the streets of Iraq and saying how someone should put theirselves in the Military's shoes while their out there.
Fair enough. PNAC is a Washington think tank co-founded by Bill Kristol (also co-founder of The Weekly Standard). Members include Paul Wolfowitz (Deputy Secretary of Defense and creator of "The Wolfowitz Doctrine" later to be known as "The Bush Doctrine"), Scooter Libby (Assistant Secretary of State), Dick Cheney (Vice President), Donald Rumsfeld (Secretary of Defense), and other names associated with the Bush Administration, but might not be as well known.

The group began calling (quite publicly) for pre-emptive war against Iraq in 1991. Coincidentally, many of the key members (listed above) just happened to be key members of the Bush Administration and just happened to be central to the invasion of Iraq which just happened to have been "justified" by the attacks of September 11th.

Minor point of interest: the PNAC published a paper called Rebuilding America's Defenses in September 2000 which identified Iran, Iraq, and North Korea as the key stratigic obstacles to American military dominance. Coincidentally, Bush 43 has frequently referred to these three countries as "the Axis of Evil".

All of this information is online if you want to do your own research. I will also be happy to funish you with links if you would like for me to recommend sources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hhunter6 View Post
Blackwater or a company of the same equivalent no doubt. thats upsetting to see because they go off their own "rules" and pretty much do what they want. all that does is defeat what others have worked hard to try fix out there.
Indeed, it is very sad.

Thanks for the great discussion! I am enjoying it very much
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