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Old 12-12-2008, 09:02 PM   #274
Achilles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataris View Post
Again, he doesn't need praise, but he demands it.
Why would the alleged source of our objective morality behave so pettily? He/she/it doesn't seem worth praising, being so insecure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataris View Post
Muslims do not get "saved." They say that they believe in Allah and his messenger Muhammed.
Maybe not in the context you're comfortable with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataris View Post
A Christian is someone who has admitted he is a sinner, believes Jesus died on the cross for his sins, and believes that he is returning a second time.
So that's all one has to do to be a christian? Nothing about living well, being kind, etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataris View Post
Jews do not believe that he is coming a second time.
And here I thought that Jews didn't believe that jesus was the messiah at all

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Originally Posted by Ataris View Post
I hope this expanded definition clears things up.
Some parts yes, some parts no. You still seem to be a little confused about what it is you hope to convey.

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Originally Posted by Ataris View Post
Let us assume that you have the skill required to construct your own robot. You decide that he is to be in your likeness, as you find your appearance a superior one, and he is to never disobey or do anything but accept you for who you are.

Does this robot really love you?
If I programmed it to love me then it seems that it would, no? If I didn't program it to love me, but I wanted it to love me, then that would seem to be a commentary on my inability to plan ahead, right? If I couldn't program it to love me, but I wanted it to love me, then that would seem to be a commentary on my inability to program wouldn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataris View Post
If God provides us with the means to make our own choices and we choose to turn to him, then it is our own decision, regardless of whether he knew we would make that decision or not.
But if god in omniscient (all knowing) then he already knows in advance what we're going to do. And if he truly is omnipotent (all powerful) then that means he made some of us to be saved and some of us to not be saved, which means that god is not omnibenevolent (all loving). Or the whole thing has more holes than swiss cheese and shouldn't be taken seriously by rational people anyway.

I tend to vote for the latter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataris View Post
So far you have given examples, but no explanation for why this is wrong.
Ordering the murder of innocent women and children isn't wrong? I will give you credit: it is refreshing to meet someone that subscribes to their religion without the mental gymnastics. Kudos for the honesty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataris View Post
He views it as justice because they disobeyed him.
Ah, now it is obvious to me that you haven't actually read the bible. What about the "they" that simply made the mistake of not being from god's favorite people? Where is the justice in creating all of mankind, favoring only some, then ordering the murder of the others? This isn't a just god. This isn't a god that deserves my attention, let alone my adoration. And this is hardly a shining example that should be viewed as the foundation of our morality.

I'll take my chances as a skeptic, thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataris View Post
If you were a creator, and if you are perfect, and your creation is not, should that creation not serve your bidding? For you are incapable of sin.
The whole argument hinges on the premise that god is perfect. I don't accept that as a reasonable assumption to make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataris View Post
Let me ask a question. I do not believe in killing people without a reason, but I would like to hear the answer: Why, in your opinion, is killing people disagreeable?
*shakes head at how hopelessly derailed this thread has become*

Start a new thread and I'll be happy to join you there.
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