View Single Post
Old 02-06-2009, 11:17 AM   #8
Exiled Jedi...
jonathan7's Avatar
Status: Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 3,680
Contest winner - Modding  LFN Staff Member  Veteran Modder  Helpful! 
Originally Posted by Miltiades View Post
Yes, I think this is something that people find unconvincing. I'll try to get something out before going to bed.

Summarizing, the thought here is that a 'rational' conclusion leads to a 'irrational' way of living, because you give reason to your existence, after you made the 'rational' conclusion that there is no reason to any existence.

I'd argue that this statement implies that someone who tries to explain everything rationally, should live and think rational at every turn, and that this statement is an absolute one. As it is, it could be regarded as irrational itself, as it implies you should be rational at every turn, without thought.
Does this not make it pointless to be rational? Further more the other problem as it seems to me, is that if we are nothing but animals and we are to choose the path we want, why is murder illegal?

Originally Posted by Miltiades View Post
In any case, I think that setting out goals for yourself in a world you perceive to have rationally none, is merely a way of getting through your life, which you acknowledge has no meaning, but which you are happy to have, because it gives you some sort of happiness.
That's subjective I may be very unhappy because my life has no meaning.

Originally Posted by Miltiades View Post
I understand that happiness is subjective, that it is different for everyone. Therein lies danger, as you and myself have hinted to.

Phew. I probably could have phrased it better, but I'm tired.
No worries, always a pleasure

Originally Posted by Arcesious View Post
Because not a whole lot of people can reach such a standard, and a lot of people, like me, don't want to set that high of a standard. I'm all for rationality and such though, but I could never keep a promise to be perfect, no one could.
Arc, the whole point of having a high standard is most people don't achieve it. Nietzsche wouldn't of thought most people would have any hope of becoming an 'Overman'.

Originally Posted by Arcesious View Post
Because it's an inconsiderate standard.
Just because somethign is inconsiderate doesn't stop it being true.

Originally Posted by Arcesious View Post
Not everyone thinks critically all the time, and it's asking too much of a person. To have a society so extremely rational would strip away the personalites of people. Kind of like the Vulcans in Enterprise, with the episodes 'The Forge' and 'Awakening', the results of what could be called 'extreme overmanism' is shown through the struggles the Vulcans have.

Originally Posted by Arcesious View Post
What I meant is that the idea semed so deeply philosphical that it was potentially illogical. Nope, I haven't read the book. What I've seen though seems to suggest a rather... 'extreme' ideology.
I seem to recall you lambasting your parents for judging things, before actually hearing the evidence. What's different in judging a theory before you have actually read the source material? Are you qualified to comment having not read the book?

Originally Posted by Web Rider View Post
Nietzsche isn't saying you should be perfect all the time, he's just saying that you need to try to be your best. The "ubermensch" is the ideal human, just like that image in your head of the ideal spoon. You do your best to reach it, but realistically, you're not going to, and Nietzsche knows that. You're just supposed to try.

Vulcans are hardly "perfect" people, and I find it hard to believe that Nietzsche was seeking something akin to a Vulcan in his concept of an ubermensch. The Vulcan concept, if we take Vulcans as an extension of Humans, guts important parts of humans in exchange for over-emphasizing other parts. Being "rational" hardly means to be cold and emotionless.

For those who have read Nietzsche, which is your favourite book? Mines 'Ecce Homo', I love the attempt at self criticism, the names of the first three chapters always amuse me, and I think show both Nietzsche's wit and his brilliant mind and also the finally chapter asking students to become more than he, to learn more etc.

"Love is the only reality and it is not a mere sentiment. It is the ultimate truth that lies at the heart of creation." - Rabindranath Tagore

"Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth." - Kahlil Gibran
jonathan7 is offline   you may: quote & reply,